Whatever happened to “We don’t balance fights around healers needing to do damage?”

[GoatOfWar]

It's not like healers need some super complex rotation, I just on a healer want something basic to keep up with, maybe a few procs a small rotation like I don't get how that ruins healers at all (people say that for some reason).
Even adding a small rotation to Sage or something would go a mile for healer job design and variation.

Sure it's called a "healer" but it's not like you have the tank spam riot blade and turn on stance, they generally have more simple to digest rotations compared to most DPS (Excluding current PLD, jobs kinda wacky but the most interesting tank), obviously tanks don't have to focus on support as much as healers but it doesn't mean they deserve one button and a dot. I just want a bit more thought into design

Another argument is that:
"it only effects casuals, healer is hard!" while healers might be "harder" it doesn't mean adding a few extra spicy buttons to a healer will make the job unplayable or super difficult.
also casuals should be took into account at least in my opinion, teaching healers that they're the 1 button job with a dot makes a lot of healers switch jobs lol.


Some people enjoy current "healer design" that's fine, I just don't and I don't think one button spam appeals to everyone, and maybe they should consider just adding a little more to healers, remove pointless stuff like cure 1 too plz, make it a upgrade trait.

That didn't seem to be a problem when they removed scholar's damage buttons. There were people who liked having those buttons.

[Dogempire]

That didn't seem to be a problem when they removed scholar's damage buttons. There were people who liked having those buttons.

God, I remember when Shadowbringers first dropped and I was excited to play through the story again on Scholar since it was my favorite job at the time.

I took one look at the skill changes, counted up all the damage buttons and everything that was taken away, and immediately swapped to being a dps main.

Sad in hindsight but things haven't gotten better since

[GoatOfWar]

God, I remember when Shadowbringers first dropped and I was excited to play through the story again on Scholar since it was my favorite job at the time.

I took one look at the skill changes, counted up all the damage buttons and everything that was taken away, and immediately swapped to being a dps main.

Sad in hindsight but things haven't gotten better since

The only thing we can do is quit playing healers. After all, we're no longer their target audience. There's no depth or room to optimise healer gameplay at all because they're tailored to new players. They made both the skill cap and skill floor as low as humanly possible.

[Rithy255]

That didn't seem to be a problem when they removed scholar's damage buttons. There were people who liked having those buttons.

I can agree I just know people will complain either way when adding buttons to healer, I generally avoid healers unless i want a instant queue time (I swear it says tank in need but I'll wait like 3 minutes still)
I personally would like small rotations/procs and more stuff to do on healer, theirs a actual divide of people who don't want more damage buttons on healer.

Weird because most people I've talked to in game, say they don't like playing healer because of the responsibility, but I don't like playing it because it's so boring... I feel like the changes weren't really aimed at making healer players happy more making healer more easy to pick up but it doesn't really work because people are still at a casual level not wanting to pick up healer because of responsibility.

Having something like a simple on healers that are also pretty engaging from a DPS perspective would make healing feel more well rounded as a job, I believe healing the act of it, is pretty easy at this point, if we designed the game for lets say a really new healer, all they're going to generally do anyway is spam cure spells so adding a "Small rotation" to one wouldn't really hurt the new player, I don't really know "who" the one button rotation style is designed for, It's just there to make "healer easier for beginners" but again healers that are new hardly dps anyway.


lastly I can't say confidently "most people like that buttons" I've watched a few videos and seen comments complain about how adding buttons would make healer complicated in savage (I don't play savage healer), because they need to focus on healing more in harder fights, now again I don't really know I've only played healer casually because it's not something that currently appeals to me.

[GrimGale]

I can agree I just know people will complain either way when adding buttons to healer, I generally avoid healers unless i want a instant queue time (I swear it says tank in need but I'll wait like 3 minutes still)
I personally would like small rotations/procs and more stuff to do on healer, theirs a actual divide of people who don't want more damage buttons on healer.

Weird because most people I've talked to in game, say they don't like playing healer because of the responsibility, but I don't like playing it because it's so boring... I feel like the changes weren't really aimed at making healer players happy more making healer more easy to pick up but it doesn't really work because people are still at a casual level not wanting to pick up healer because of responsibility.

Having something like a simple on healers that are also pretty engaging from a DPS perspective would make healing feel more well rounded as a job, I believe healing the act of it, is pretty easy at this point, if we designed the game for lets say a really new healer, all they're going to generally do anyway is spam cure spells so adding a "Small rotation" to one wouldn't really hurt the new player, I don't really know "who" the one button rotation style is designed for, It's just there to make "healer easier for beginners" but again healers that are new hardly dps anyway.


lastly I can't say confidently "most people like that buttons" I've watched a few videos and seen comments complain about how adding buttons would make healer complicated in savage (I don't play savage healer), because they need to focus on healing more in harder fights, now again I don't really know I've only played healer casually because it's not something that currently appeals to me.

There are so many mechanics that you could introduce that would liven up healer "Filler" gameplay that would not require any sort of complicated rotation. Hell, they would not even require any additional assets! We have 5 different spell effects for the same spell already, they just replace your nuke animation when you level up!

[ForsakenRoe]

Hell, they would not even require any additional assets! We have 5 different spell effects for the same spell already, they just replace your nuke animation when you level up!

in some cases (cough toxicon1>2), the animation changes entirely and the lower level form gets left to rot in the 'levelling experience', hardly ever seen again. for some like Bio1 vs Bio2 vs Biolysis, whatever im not that fussed, but for toxicon specifically it angers me because tox1 is THE animation we saw when sage was revealed, in the trailer, and it gets replaced after just like 20 levels. why cant we have a trait that improves the potency of toxicon 1, let it use tox2's animation the whole time, and then use the now-freed tox1 animation on something new

[ty_taurus]

in some cases (cough toxicon1>2), the animation changes entirely and the lower level form gets left to rot in the 'levelling experience', hardly ever seen again. for some like Bio1 vs Bio2 vs Biolysis, whatever im not that fussed, but for toxicon specifically it angers me because tox1 is THE animation we saw when sage was revealed, in the trailer, and it gets replaced after just like 20 levels. why cant we have a trait that improves the potency of toxicon 1, let it use tox2's animation the whole time, and then use the now-freed tox1 animation on something new

What's particularly baffling is how Toxikon I is so frequently used outside of SGE's PVE kit. It's a core tool in PVP and is on Alphinaud's hotbar during the level 88ish instance battle in the MSQ. It feels like SGE was meant to have a completely different approach to its gameplay, and then someone came along and said "no, that's too fun. Make it like all the other healers."

[VentVanitas]

What's particularly baffling is how Toxikon I is so frequently used outside of SGE's PVE kit. It's a core tool in PVP and is on Alphinaud's hotbar during the level 88ish instance battle in the MSQ. It feels like SGE was meant to have a completely different approach to its gameplay, and then someone came along and said "no, that's too fun. Make it like all the other healers."

It feels especially strange for SGE because it's probably the only PvP job that could have a straight transfer of its damage kit onto its PvE kit with little to no problems at all. I'm almost inclined to believe the tinfoil hat conspiracy that PvP SGE was originally how it was meant to play.