Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

[Mithron]

No wonder the devs think SAM is fine in its current state. Because people like this think high damage > good gameplay

Damage is what determines "reward" in this game. Yes, you'll have fun on any job the first few hundred hours you play it simply because it's fresh and new and exciting, but when you have thousands of hours in different jobs, you look for mastery, and the only true metric of mastery in this game as it's designed is damage dealt. I agree that playstyle is much more important than numbers for job design, but both must be addressed for a job to truly feel rewarding after the "fresh" feeling wears off. Otherwise you will always have a nagging feeling of "I could be contributing so much more on a better job, but I choose to suffer because this is the playstyle I like" and that drains your soul over time.

And I'm avidly a proponent for Kaiten returning.

[Ransu]

Damage is what determines "reward" in this game. Yes, you'll have fun on any job the first few hundred hours you play it simply because it's fresh and new and exciting, but when you have thousands of hours in different jobs, you look for mastery, and the only true metric of mastery in this game as it's designed is damage dealt. I agree that playstyle is much more important than numbers for job design, but both must be addressed for a job to truly feel rewarding after the "fresh" feeling wears off. Otherwise you will always have a nagging feeling of "I could be contributing so much more on a better job, but I choose to suffer because this is the playstyle I like" and that drains your soul over time.

And I'm avidly a proponent for Kaiten returning.

This has to be one of the worst takes I've ever seen...

I don't care how much dps SAM pumps out right now (mostly due to dnc changes). Nothing will change the fact that its a shinten spam job now with a wet noodle auto crit design that has made its game play incredibly boring. Not saying SAM was ever complex, because it wasn't, but the way it plays right now is horrid. I'm not going to force myself to keep playing SAM because it does "big dps." That's dumb. Do I think BLM should be doing more DPS? Absolutely. Am I going to go back to SAM just because BLM is lower DPS atm? Absolutely not, especially with the Yoshi saying the next patch will be buffing ranged across the board to adjust for the changes made to the larger boss hitboxes allowing melee to have basically 99% uptime which is part of the reason SAM is so through the roof right now.

And honestly, BLM dps overall is still fine atm and is in no danger of struggling to clear any content. Its only behind SAM in adps and ndps. Its rdps sucks because the job doesn't really fit into the 2 minute burst window right now and they don't benefit from the raid buffs the same way a lot of the melee do.

[Mithron]

Would you really stay with BLM if they received no buffs for the entire expansion and no matter how well you played, you'd remain forever behind SAM? I don't find that very enjoyable or rewarding. Seeing my numbers reflect my efforts is what's rewarding.

Look at MCH and RDM and tell me, do they feel "rewarded" for their mastery? This is all just opinion and that's fine, but it feels really bad to put effort into mastery and be 15% behind everyone for no good reason.

I'm not telling you to switch back to SAM or anything like that. Just stating BLM should be higher than SAM since it's harder to play and they're both the same role as selfish DPS, and if/when it does, that's when it'll feel truly rewarding.

[Ransu]

Would you really stay with BLM if they received no buffs for the entire expansion and no matter how well you played, you'd remain forever behind SAM? I don't find that very enjoyable or rewarding. Seeing my numbers reflect my efforts is what's rewarding.

Look at MCH and RDM and tell me, do they feel "rewarded" for their mastery? This is all just opinion and that's fine, but it feels really bad to put effort into mastery and be 15% behind everyone for no good reason.

I'm not telling you to switch back to SAM or anything like that. Just stating BLM should be higher than SAM since it's harder to play and they're both the same role as selfish DPS, and if/when it does, that's when it'll feel truly rewarding.

I think BLM should be higher than SAM simply because of the mobility differences, but I also just don't really care about numbers all that much. Having fun is more important to me and as long as I'm in the higher percentile of the job I'm playing and knowing I'm performing well that's all that matters to me. Don't really care if the MNK or SAM or whatever is out pacing me during their 2 minute burst windows.

I think MCH and RDM do need buffs, but if I found those jobs enjoyable I'd play them regardless of their dps. I like the RDM aesthetic, but I can't get into its clunky rotation and MCH is just all over the place with how spammy it is. BLM is methodical and I simply find playing it well enjoyable and rewarding.

Try turning your parser off and just play the game. You'll soon find its much more enjoyable when you stop caring about being #1 in the group you're in because that mindset is silly and just shoehorns you into "play this job because its top dps." Prior to SAM I was a DRG main. I loved how it played in HW, but wasn't a fan of the SB changes, plus samurais are just cool so I swapped to SAM in SB and stuck with it even though it was kinda...bad at launch dps wise because I found it a lot of fun. Its all about what you find fun.

[Vencio]

I think BLM should be higher than SAM simply because of the mobility differences, but I also just don't really care about numbers all that much. Having fun is more important to me and as long as I'm in the higher percentile of the job I'm playing and knowing I'm performing well that's all that matters to me. Don't really care if the MNK or SAM or whatever is out pacing me during their 2 minute burst windows.

I think MCH and RDM do need buffs, but if I found those jobs enjoyable I'd play them regardless of their dps. I like the RDM aesthetic, but I can't get into its clunky rotation and MCH is just all over the place with how spammy it is. BLM is methodical and I simply find playing it well enjoyable and rewarding.

Try turning your parser off and just play the game. You'll soon find its much more enjoyable when you stop caring about being #1 in the group you're in because that mindset is silly and just shoehorns you into "play this job because its top dps." Prior to SAM I was a DRG main. I loved how it played in HW, but wasn't a fan of the SB changes, plus samurais are just cool so I swapped to SAM in SB and stuck with it even though it was kinda...bad at launch dps wise because I found it a lot of fun. Its all about what you find fun.

-Grins & sips elegant Elezen Wine-

How goes BLM my little samurai friend?

[Mithron]

I think MCH and RDM do need buffs, but if I found those jobs enjoyable I'd play them regardless of their dps. I like the RDM aesthetic, but I can't get into its clunky rotation and MCH is just all over the place with how spammy it is. BLM is methodical and I simply find playing it well enjoyable and rewarding.

Try turning your parser off and just play the game. You'll soon find its much more enjoyable when you stop caring about being #1 in the group you're in because that mindset is silly and just shoehorns you into "play this job because its top dps." Prior to SAM I was a DRG main. I loved how it played in HW, but wasn't a fan of the SB changes, plus samurais are just cool so I swapped to SAM in SB and stuck with it even though it was kinda...bad at launch dps wise because I found it a lot of fun. Its all about what you find fun.

I find RDM and MCH enjoyable to play too rotation wise, but when my clears take significantly and noticeably longer than when I play other jobs it's not as enjoyable.

I play with my VPN on almost all the time now so I don't have the parser on. The fact that I know what jobs are good and what jobs are not determines the value and rewarding feeling regardless. I know if it was on, my MCH would not be anywhere near my SAM despite having much better gear. I think playstyle for fun is more important than "what's best" for sure, but there's also the feeling of mastery that wants to see less disparity with your job choice so you can actually play what you want without being penalized by your choice. No matter what, as long as MCH is this far below SAM, or BLM that far below SAM even, it's going to be a significant deterrent for enjoying and wanting to play those jobs. It wasn't as much of an issue in later HW and SB because DPS disparity was not this great.

[Ransu]

Did anyone hear something? No? I guess it was just the wind.

I find RDM and MCH enjoyable to play too rotation wise, but when my clears take significantly and noticeably longer than when I play other jobs it's not as enjoyable.

I play with my VPN on almost all the time now so I don't have the parser on. The fact that I know what jobs are good and what jobs are not determines the value and rewarding feeling regardless. I know if it was on, my MCH would not be anywhere near my SAM despite having much better gear. I think playstyle for fun is more important than "what's best" for sure, but there's also the feeling of mastery that wants to see less disparity with your job choice so you can actually play what you want without being penalized by your choice. No matter what, as long as MCH is this far below SAM, or BLM that far below SAM even, it's going to be a significant deterrent for enjoying and wanting to play those jobs. It wasn't as much of an issue in later HW and SB because DPS disparity was not this great.

I agree there's a disparity right now in dps, but I just don't believe in shoehorning myself into a corner based on a jobs performance. Conversations on balance and where a job should be in terms of dps are great conversations, but I refuse to let those be a deterrent to my enjoyment of any job I'm playing. If I did I would never keep my drg leveled up with my sam every expansion in the off chance I'd wanna go back to drg because that job will always be special to me being that was my original main and would play it regardless of its dps performance. I actually almost went back to drg this tier, but I wanted to try something new and our static everyone was switching up roles so I jumped at the chance to fill the magic dps slot. Glad I did too because blm is super fun (I also really wanted to tank, but our tanks are glued to the hip apparently lmao.)

[Vencio]

You look like a Namazu in Hyur disguise!

[CelestiCer]

Damage is what determines "reward" in this game.

I disagree... I can have 50% of my kit removed? and have Ogi Namikiri and Midare Setsugekka be spammable skills. Will I do high damage? Yes. Is it rewarding now? NO...

Like you said, the one true metric of mastery over jobs is " Damage " performance. That's also sadly the main factor a majority of players gauge skill through say FFLogs when there are a lot of other factors that makes a player " Skillful " vs " A few high numbers ".

The point you're making on something feeling Fresh? only makes sense if the old is either outdated or broken. What they did with Kaiten? was just unnecessary. And it also only makes sense if they replaced it with something which they didn't. Now have a nagging feeling of " it's just a Shinten Gauge " and like your words state perfectly, many choose to suffer this playstyle and it drains the player overtime. Of which I know plenty have quit purely over it.

I agree with you on Kaiten returning, but not for the same reason for Damage and Damage alone as it is the metric of reward as you put it. I wanted high-damage to be reached more sophisticated or complex, a hint of nuance to reach our high damage numbers ingame over Shinten spamming.

[Vencio]

I yield,

Just return Kaiten for crying out loud & be done with it -sighs- I fear for what future they may do to my PLD