Proposed changes for underperforming jobs

[Memoranda]

Caster's identity needs a revamp.

I was talking to a friend yesterday and he feels raise has high value in prog. He is right. He is saying RDM would always be behind both SMN and BLM because it's high raise on demand and raise support isn't to save a run and clear. It's to help see further mechanics and practice to get a clear faster. He is also right about it. For Red Mage to do more DPS and be on par with Summoner, they'd need to take down Raise and leave it as a role action for all caster DPS with some sort of CD. That would work but it would require an overhaul of the caster balance. RDM and SMN would need to deal comparative DPS to BLM.

So I don't think we'll get much of a DPS increase from RDM. If they do get a buff. So will SMN. If they buff BLM because Yoshidad's job is behind melees. They should buff other casters. But that won't solve the problem itself. Unfortunately I do not believe we'll see any major change for caster until 7.0.

That isn't a super major spoiler but seeing how MSQ is going, there's a very high change that Krile will be having a new job and it would be a caster DPS. I can't see them giving her a 5th healer job after SAG just came out. With a 4th Caster role, they will have to rework casters.

Take it with a grain of salt because it's pure speculations here but they could split casters like they did with healers. Pure DPS Casters with higher damage and Raise casters. I do not believe this is the right choice. That would kill identity imho and with only 8 spots to fill and with 19 jobs to raid with, you'll have "bad" jobs like Machinist.

I personally feel Raise needs to be gone from SMN and RDM kit and a role action is created for them. Like Tactician needs to be a role action. I expect casters to be more and more mobile which will suck for RDM because RDM is about dualcast. But I 100% know the 4th caster job will be about SMN brain power judging from how RPR and SAG are easy to play.

Ideally, Square will stop with this idiotic "support tax" they saddle jobs with. There is absolutely no reason to cut Red Mage's damage just because they have constant raise. Its a stupid, idiotic system that should have been gotten rid of a long time ago. And if getting rid of the support tax is too damn hard, they need to redo Raise like how a Battle Rez works in World of Warcraft: One per fight and then that's it, once its used up its gone. Of course for FF14's case, it'd probably need to be something like only three Raises allowed per fight.

[Raikai]

Ideally, Square will stop with this idiotic "support tax" they saddle jobs with. There is absolutely no reason to cut Red Mage's damage just because they have constant raise. Its a stupid, idiotic system that should have been gotten rid of a long time ago. And if getting rid of the support tax is too damn hard, they need to redo Raise like how a Battle Rez works in World of Warcraft: One per fight and then that's it, once its used up its gone. Of course for FF14's case, it'd probably need to be something like only three Raises allowed per fight.

It could also be that they let us have a kind of combat phoenix down consumable with a 5min recast timer... This way, RDM and SMN rezzes would actually be a nice job perk (of a "better" phoenix down) instead of a identity-defining staple.

[Lanvaldear]

RDMa harder hitting melee combo to start, and some form of faster resource generation. After some thought, I think 90s Manification may achieve that. Some other very slight potency values may be needed as well, but I think the melee combo and manification are a good starting point.

As as RDM main, I've been saying this since the magnification change. IMO, change manafication back to just being 15 seconds, that way it lasts the entire melee/mage combo duration plus a gcd for wiggleroom, maybe 20 seconds (and put it back on a 2 minute cooldown) if you want to be nice. OR buff melee combo to 310/380/490 potency.
Right now my biggest complaint is that melee combo isn't worth using under manafication, which forces you to meleecombo, then manafication, mage combo, then burn your last 3 stacks on a ver combo+acceleration. If it were a duration like it used to be, it wouldn't matter to use melee combo under it because its not stealing a stack that a higher potency ver spell could be using, or if it at least has the potency of your standard vercombo, it wouldn't matter that its taking a stack.

[FireMage]

Right now my biggest complaint is that melee combo isn't worth using under manafication

The math states otherwise. This is like RDM 101

[Lanvaldear]

The math states otherwise. This is like RDM 101

Care to explain?
Melee combo is 980 potency, or 1,029 under manafication. Vercombo+acceleration is 1090, or 1145 under manafication. Even ver combo into another vercombo is better use of the 3 mana stacks (1040/1092) than using them on melee combo.
Unless you're confusing mage combo with vercombo.

[FireMage]

Care to explain?
Melee combo is 980 potency, or 1,029 under manafication. Vercombo+acceleration is 1090, or 1145 under manafication. Even ver combo into another vercombo is better use of the 3 mana stacks (1040/1092) than using them on melee combo.
Unless you're confusing mage combo with vercombo.

980/5.2 is 188.46

1090/7.5 is 145.33

[SaberMaxwell]

As as RDM main, I've been saying this since the magnification change. IMO, change manafication back to just being 15 seconds, that way it lasts the entire melee/mage combo duration plus a gcd for wiggleroom, maybe 20 seconds (and put it back on a 2 minute cooldown) if you want to be nice. OR buff melee combo to 310/380/490 potency.
Right now my biggest complaint is that melee combo isn't worth using under manafication, which forces you to meleecombo, then manafication, mage combo, then burn your last 3 stacks on a ver combo+acceleration. If it were a duration like it used to be, it wouldn't matter to use melee combo under it because its not stealing a stack that a higher potency ver spell could be using, or if it at least has the potency of your standard vercombo, it wouldn't matter that its taking a stack.

I wouldn't say it "forces" anything. I did a little mathing it out on an excel spreadsheet I have and the difference between interrupting or not was minimal, in favor of just sucking it up and doing melee combo normally:
Doing it normal: 8566

Interrupting for "vercombo": 8518

In both of these I kept the sequence running into ~37.68seconds, when the action count equals out, because embolden (which does remain a timed buff) gets more out of ramming as many actions into it as possible, and the speed of melee combo allows for one more action to fit under embo than otherwise.

As far as the main point of the request, I'm not against it in the least. I just found that statement curious and wanted to check it for myself because hey, who knows where new opti could be found?

980/5.2 is 188.46

1090/7.5 is 145.33

They're talking about the potency per GCD because manafication spends by GCD, so the melee combo's speed doesn't really come into the discussion for manafication specifically. Though as I stated above, manafication being used with embo means you'll probably want to run the melee combo anyway.

[Lanvaldear]

I wouldn't say it "forces" anything. I did a little mathing it out on an excel spreadsheet I have and the difference between interrupting or not was minimal, in favor of just sucking it up and doing melee combo normally:

I'm no math wizard. I'm only going by what the balance recommends . Unless I'm reading it wrong, they said to do what I posted so long as you don't overcap your mana. Which allows you to "save" the melee combo for the next buff phase is while maximizing the increase out of manafication when it doesn't line up.

[Azuri]

I'm no math wizard. I'm only going by what the balance recommends . Unless I'm reading it wrong, they said to do what I posted so long as you don't overcap your mana. Which allows you to "save" the melee combo for the next buff phase is while maximizing the increase out of manafication when it doesn't line up.

Maybe you are reading it right (you even wrote it) but you are not understanding it correctly. The difference between three melee hits and three spells under Manafication is 1-8 potency. This is literally less than an auto attack. A complete non-factor.

The point of Manafication after Redoublement is (as you say) to carry the mana forward to have a melee under buffs or have more finishers under buffs. Nothing about melee hits potency will change this.

[Lanvaldear]

I think at that point, my understanding is correct, or at least close to it. I'm just putting too much emphasis on the minor potency gain from the ver spells vs the weaker melee combo hits. I suppose saying that it's "not worth using" it's a gross overstatement.