Proposed changes for underperforming jobs

[Foinhas]

Honestly i think the biggest problem with red mage is it's utility rather than damage. This is what i propose:

Vercure now adds 2 white mana and veraise gives 6 white mana. Why? RDM is one of (if not the) jobe that relys in gcds the most, since the combo is the very core of REM gameplay. This way you don't feel like you are shooting yourself in the foot when you uses this skills.

Next i woud add two new skills: one that adds %damage to a player next attack (2.5s cd and gives 2 black mana) and one with 5s cd that gives 6 mana that i still don't know what would do but should be about giving players damage. this way RDM could ACTUALY be a suppot caster instead of having a cure that pretty much means the pull is over, a good raise that's situational at best and one of the worst mitigation abillities in the game

[Arguscbf]

Honestly i think the biggest problem with red mage is it's utility rather than damage. This is what i propose:

Vercure now adds 2 white mana and veraise gives 6 white mana. Why? RDM is one of (if not the) jobe that relys in gcds the most, since the combo is the very core of REM gameplay. This way you don't feel like you are shooting yourself in the foot when you uses this skills.

Next i woud add two new skills: one that adds %damage to a player next attack (2.5s cd and gives 2 black mana) and one with 5s cd that gives 6 mana that i still don't know what would do but should be about giving players damage. this way RDM could ACTUALY be a suppot caster instead of having a cure that pretty much means the pull is over, a good raise that's situational at best and one of the worst mitigation abillities in the game

I'd rather have Verraise with 2 charges(150s cooldown) and more potency buffs!

[Mithron]

I'd rather have Verraise with 2 charges(150s cooldown) and more potency buffs!

Why not just get potency buffs while keeping Verraise as it is? Why should RDM do less damage simply because of Verraise when Verraise should never be used in optimal scenarios? Verraise already takes away a GCD, MP and mana thus DPS loss.

There are no fights in the game where a particular job's non-raid damage buffing utility/mitigation is required. Why should there be a DPS tax for it, then? Especially in the following weeks when the fight becomes easier to farm, it's ridiculous to tax skills you never need to use.

[darkdyllon]

MCH prio number one at this point.
I think a good starting place would be a flat 5% damage buff, in the form of giving the vulnerability down back, or a personal vuln down like NIN's current Trick Attack. This would be unique enough as a raid buff that it would be good for speed kills, and make it interchangeable with NIN otherwise. If you want to keep the job "selfish", then a personal vuln down buff would still be unique and achieve the same thing. The Mishit window is around 5-8%, so a flat buff would bring it in line and slightly under similarly performing jobs i think.

RPR i dont know why arcane circle is 3%, when it should have always been 5%. In addition, it is a very resource heavy job with a funky 124 loop that also somehow made it through testing. With that said, generating resources in down time is probably also needed. Casting Soul Sow could achieve this, as well as possibly give some when harvest moon is used.

RDMa harder hitting melee combo to start, and some form of faster resource generation. After some thought, I think 90s Manification may achieve that. Some other very slight potency values may be needed as well, but I think the melee combo and manification are a good starting point.

These seem to be the main 3 in the most need. I know other jobs could use some slight changes as well, but the ones that need it most should be a priority, and then proceed from there.

90 second manafication is an terrible idea.
you want to pair manafication with embolden whenever possible since embolden will amp up your attacks while manafication does the same, you want to pair these as much as possible, having it on 90 seconds would just mean you wouldn't use manafication till embolden comes up, which means it'll be around 20 seconds off cooldown.

Honestly overal just more damage in our general kit would be nice, maybe add something to something else, like finishing an melee combo adds more damage to your 2 finishers since you can get your 2 finishers without completing the full melee combo.
or it gives you 1 dual cast for 45 seconds, something to that effect, but lowering manafication just adds clunkyness to the job since you want to use manafication as much as you can, but you also want to pair it with embolden (since that's at the party burst) but if you have manafication at 90 seconds you'll have manafication at 1:30, 3:00, 4:30, 5:00, 6:30, 8:00, 9:30 and then 11:00 (assuming you haven't killed the encounter yet)
so assuming this you would either hold manafication or use it on cooldown, using it on cooldown only has 2 aligned manafication through the fight since either you're 30 seconds too early, or 1 minute too late, or the other way around.

[SaberMaxwell]

I'm...contradicting myself? Are you just trying to use combative words to place yourself in a position above me or seem somehow correct? Trying to flex how you managed to pool and bank resources for an objectively difficult mechanic for casters correctly when to do it you're doing some suboptimal 0/6 minute pot stuff?

I'm not seeing how I "contradicted" myself at all, especially because you even apparently misread what I said was a common mistake. What point am I contradicting myself on? That RDM is more mobile than ever, which was the claim and thesis of my post? Are you saying ShB and StB RDM could handle Purgation or (I guess when you get there) Cthonic Vents? Or am I contradicting myself by saying I like RDM's current limitations of mobility, of which you needed to detail an entire paragraph to how a RDM should approach Purgation?

Though I do appreciate your play by play of your steps and might appreciate a clip of you managing all that without dropping so much as a single GCD. I think I managed to do a pretty good job of not dropping anything this week of reclears personally, and might even go grab a clip to post here myself.

[Lanvaldear]

RDMa harder hitting melee combo to start, and some form of faster resource generation. After some thought, I think 90s Manification may achieve that. Some other very slight potency values may be needed as well, but I think the melee combo and manification are a good starting point.

As as RDM main, I've been saying this since the magnification change. IMO, change manafication back to just being 15 seconds, that way it lasts the entire melee/mage combo duration plus a gcd for wiggleroom, maybe 20 seconds (and put it back on a 2 minute cooldown) if you want to be nice. OR buff melee combo to 310/380/490 potency.
Right now my biggest complaint is that melee combo isn't worth using under manafication, which forces you to meleecombo, then manafication, mage combo, then burn your last 3 stacks on a ver combo+acceleration. If it were a duration like it used to be, it wouldn't matter to use melee combo under it because its not stealing a stack that a higher potency ver spell could be using, or if it at least has the potency of your standard vercombo, it wouldn't matter that its taking a stack.

[SaberMaxwell]

As as RDM main, I've been saying this since the magnification change. IMO, change manafication back to just being 15 seconds, that way it lasts the entire melee/mage combo duration plus a gcd for wiggleroom, maybe 20 seconds (and put it back on a 2 minute cooldown) if you want to be nice. OR buff melee combo to 310/380/490 potency.
Right now my biggest complaint is that melee combo isn't worth using under manafication, which forces you to meleecombo, then manafication, mage combo, then burn your last 3 stacks on a ver combo+acceleration. If it were a duration like it used to be, it wouldn't matter to use melee combo under it because its not stealing a stack that a higher potency ver spell could be using, or if it at least has the potency of your standard vercombo, it wouldn't matter that its taking a stack.

I wouldn't say it "forces" anything. I did a little mathing it out on an excel spreadsheet I have and the difference between interrupting or not was minimal, in favor of just sucking it up and doing melee combo normally:
Doing it normal: 8566

Interrupting for "vercombo": 8518

In both of these I kept the sequence running into ~37.68seconds, when the action count equals out, because embolden (which does remain a timed buff) gets more out of ramming as many actions into it as possible, and the speed of melee combo allows for one more action to fit under embo than otherwise.

As far as the main point of the request, I'm not against it in the least. I just found that statement curious and wanted to check it for myself because hey, who knows where new opti could be found?

980/5.2 is 188.46

1090/7.5 is 145.33

They're talking about the potency per GCD because manafication spends by GCD, so the melee combo's speed doesn't really come into the discussion for manafication specifically. Though as I stated above, manafication being used with embo means you'll probably want to run the melee combo anyway.

[Lanvaldear]

I wouldn't say it "forces" anything. I did a little mathing it out on an excel spreadsheet I have and the difference between interrupting or not was minimal, in favor of just sucking it up and doing melee combo normally:

I'm no math wizard. I'm only going by what the balance recommends . Unless I'm reading it wrong, they said to do what I posted so long as you don't overcap your mana. Which allows you to "save" the melee combo for the next buff phase is while maximizing the increase out of manafication when it doesn't line up.

[Azuri]

I'm no math wizard. I'm only going by what the balance recommends . Unless I'm reading it wrong, they said to do what I posted so long as you don't overcap your mana. Which allows you to "save" the melee combo for the next buff phase is while maximizing the increase out of manafication when it doesn't line up.

Maybe you are reading it right (you even wrote it) but you are not understanding it correctly. The difference between three melee hits and three spells under Manafication is 1-8 potency. This is literally less than an auto attack. A complete non-factor.

The point of Manafication after Redoublement is (as you say) to carry the mana forward to have a melee under buffs or have more finishers under buffs. Nothing about melee hits potency will change this.

[Lanvaldear]

I think at that point, my understanding is correct, or at least close to it. I'm just putting too much emphasis on the minor potency gain from the ver spells vs the weaker melee combo hits. I suppose saying that it's "not worth using" it's a gross overstatement.