The Final Fantasy XIV Problem.

[Midareyukki]

I've been playing since September 2013 on PS3 and I've spent hours on different Mentor Roulettes, struggling parties and teaching parties. I've been helping people I see struggle for almost a decade now.

Not once have I been told to shut up or to not tell people what to do and not once have I had a problem related to this.

Good for you. I've been playing since October 2016, and yes, I have been told to shut up and not tell people what to do plenty of times. The last of which, incidentally, was on Seat of Sacrifice Normal. I was not rude, I was not aggressive. I simply gave a heads up about how the AoEs change depending on whether he charges with Fire or Ice. And many times I was perceived to be aggressive in asking people to heal a certain way, do damage a certain way, use tank cooldowns a certain way, when really I just wanted people to have a better time and not feel frustrated. I even got told off when someone said "God GNB is so squishy" and I pointed out that they weren't using Nebula at all, which would help a lot, especially at the start of a mob pull. And that's all I said. "It's not squishy. I noticed you haven't been using Nebula that much. If you use it at the start of a pull, you mitigate most of the damage and you won't feel so hard-pressed." I got told to stop being an elitist and was threatened to be reported if I told people how to play. What was I supposed to answer to that?

Great that that's been your experience DiaDeem. And I hope you don't have to go through it yourself. But others have. If you haven't experienced it despite playing for so long, then be grateful you haven't encountered people like these. Because when you do, it's really hard through to them that you're there to help.

It doesn't devalue all the other good experiences I've had. And odds are it may be a Datacenter difference, who knows. But those experiences do exist. Some people just do not want to listen, and immediately get angry at you for speaking your voice. Ironically enough, I remember one point in Doma Castle where the tank thought I was calling her out and got aggressive, again saying I was being elitist and not letting new players make mistakes and learn. Me and my FC mates at the time managed to calm her down and she said that she's just too used to playing other games where people are usually mocking and aggressive when pointing out mistakes. She ended up giving me a commendation.

[caffe_macchiato]

There is a lot of pent-up hostility in FFXIV, and it shows, whether that’s the official forums, on Reddit, or in individual instances. If these problems were just isolated incidents, that would be one thing. But if this keeps coming up time and time again, that indicates a game issue. FFXIV has always been like this. Why should players be pitted against each other like this while the devs get off with a mulligan? I know that Square Enix is mostly concerned with revenue and the JP raid scene, but it would be nice for them to provide us with some additional tools to help. How about dynamic tooltips to help new players deal with brand new mechanic markers?

I know it’s bad to hold people’s hand too much, but a little hint for the new players would be better than players bottling up all of this hostility like this. It leads to passive-aggressive behavior and reporting.

[zabu]

I do not think it is game's responsbility to teach player everything. Teach some is ok, but all not good thing
When you got a new skill, you need to read it. If you have question, there are a lot things you can do to find it out. Things like ask the the players or search online, that is how you learn.
Even if the game teach everything, I highly doubt players will execute. Example like will you as DPS use mitigation in 24 man raid or dungeon? I bet there are a lot of people dont do that.

I do agree casual toxicity is truly a big problem, especially whenever SE make some disclaimer, it is understandable each person view differently. However, the worst part is people use this and try to fight against other players. And always think they are always right.
There are a lot of people in this game are really self-centered, and not willing to listen, share, discuss different opinions. This make people do not want to be in novice network, in FC, or even give advice in dungeon or raid.
Another way to say is player interaction in this game is really bad.
People always forget that FFXIV is "MMO", is not single player game. You will interact with other player no matter what. I highly doubt anyone can survive in this game without any human interaction. From raid, dungeon, trial to crafting, market board, FC, reddit, forum.
Based on my FFXIV experience since 2.0 til now, I really do not see why people keep saying FFXIV has good community, as the community just keep going to negative side more than positive.

[Striker44]

I've been playing since September 2013 on PS3 and I've spent hours on different Mentor Roulettes, struggling parties and teaching parties. I've been helping people I see struggle for almost a decade now.

Not once have I been told to shut up or to not tell people what to do and not once have I had a problem related to this.

I have no idea what kind of language you guys use that keeps getting you in trouble, seriously.

I think this brings up a good point. If we look at even just some of our posters here, it doesn't seem to be a wide variety of people getting "in trouble" on rare or random occasions; it seems to be a select group of people getting "in trouble" over and over again. Case in point: "Good for you. I've been playing since October 2016, and yes, I have been told to shut up and not tell people what to do plenty of times." The question becomes - at what point do you note that the one common denominator in these exchanges is *you*? If someone's getting told something repeatedly, while a lot of other people report no issues, chances are it has something to do with the way that one person is going about things. That one follows with "And many times I was perceived to be aggressive in asking people to heal a certain way, do damage a certain way, use tank cooldowns a certain way, when really I just wanted people to have a better time and not feel frustrated." When that happens to you specifically "many times," chances are it's something about "you," not the system, not everyone else.

The issues addressed by OP are why I won't offer assistance unless somebody asks for it first. It's also why I generally avoid dutyfinder unless I feel like witnessing a shitshow.

I find this interesting. Almost all of my various group runs are through DF, with the remaining batch being within my FC. The amount of DF groups I've found that turn into a "***show" is minuscule. Most simply get the job done, and usually reasonably well or better.

[Deveryn]

I think it's inaccurate to portray the community one way or another, but it could always be a little better. In the end, it's not SE's problem but our own. It's a collective effort for things to be one way or another and it starts with how we act and respond to different things.

[TheMightyMollusk]

They could add all the tutorials and tooltips they want, but nobody's obligated to actually learn from any of it. It's still a people problem.

[Jojoya]

I think it's inaccurate to portray the community one way or another, but it could always be a little better. In the end, it's not SE's problem but our own. It's a collective effort for things to be one way or another and it starts with how we act and respond to different things.

Except things don't need to be one way or the other in most cases. There are usually many ways to get the same or very similar end result.

The moment someone is told they should be doing things a certain way, they're going to get defensive. That's trying to dictate their playstyle, which we've been warned not to do.

The better way to approach helping someone is to say "would you mind a suggestion that will make things easier/more enjoyable when playing your job?" then leave it up to them whether they want the advice. People tend to be more receptive when allowed to choose instead of having it forced on them or when you express it as wanting to help them have more fun.

[UnrealTai]

There is a lot of pent-up hostility in FFXIV, and it shows, whether that’s the official forums, on Reddit, or in individual instances. If these problems were just isolated incidents, that would be one thing. But if this keeps coming up time and time again, that indicates a game issue. FFXIV has always been like this. Why should players be pitted against each other like this while the devs get off with a mulligan? I know that Square Enix is mostly concerned with revenue and the JP raid scene, but it would be nice for them to provide us with some additional tools to help. How about dynamic tooltips to help new players deal with brand new mechanic markers?

I know it’s bad to hold people’s hand too much, but a little hint for the new players would be better than players bottling up all of this hostility like this. It leads to passive-aggressive behavior and reporting.

I agree with this.
And I rarely agree with things.

The reporting issue alone, I feel like if SE said emoting in public is ban able 95% of the pop would report it. Pent up issues, and people trying to be too…PC…. reddit ffxiv is somehow worse in that aspect than in game.

On the new player thing….
3 years ago just in PVP alone, forget raids, I was probably mid tier. Now Im first in kills in about 75% of my frontline matches. Which is crazy to me considering its 72 ppl.
I doubt its me getting any better, the new players aren’t getting things is more likely.
And this is the most casual content there is

[Boblawblah]

There is a lot of pent-up hostility in FFXIV, and it shows, whether that’s the official forums, on Reddit, or in individual instances. If these problems were just isolated incidents, that would be one thing. But if this keeps coming up time and time again, that indicates a game issue. FFXIV has always been like this. Why should players be pitted against each other like this while the devs get off with a mulligan? I know that Square Enix is mostly concerned with revenue and the JP raid scene, but it would be nice for them to provide us with some additional tools to help. How about dynamic tooltips to help new players deal with brand new mechanic markers?

I know it’s bad to hold people’s hand too much, but a little hint for the new players would be better than players bottling up all of this hostility like this. It leads to passive-aggressive behavior and reporting.

OR, it indicates that people are people. Unless FFXIV is unique in it's issues, which anyone that has played any video game with people EVER, or really done anything with people online, can attest to the falseness of.

[AmiableApkallu]

The better way to approach helping someone is to say "would you mind a suggestion that will make things easier/more enjoyable when playing your job?" then leave it up to them whether they want the advice. People tend to be more receptive when allowed to choose instead of having it forced on them or when you express it as wanting to help them have more fun.

To this, I'd add that people tend to be more open to advice after they tank the floor or the party wipes: "lol, what just happened?"