Yoshi-P "definitive" answer on third party tools from today's 14 hour stream

[caffe_macchiato]

I mean some should, or only run with Trusts or those that are okay with carrying. You realize that pulling your weight is something people should be doing, yes?

"Pulling your own weight" involves solving the mechanics with your fellow party members while pressing your class rotation's buttons in the right order. One does not need to use FFLogs or ACT to do so. We have a training dummy called Stone, Sky, Sea that the devs believe is sufficient. If one needs third-party, fan-made content to play the game, then the game is incomplete.

I would totally understand if people wanted to use parsing only as a quality-of-life measure. However, the discussion in here has shown that not everyone in this community is a good-faith steward. This worsening attitude is most concerning: high-end content becoming gatekeeped by the hands of a vocal minority who use a particular third-party tool to promote their own superiority and power. They set the standard of what it means to "pull your own weight". Then they direct people to "uninstall" if they object. This is not how FFXIV was supposed to be, and the director himself has spoken emphatically against this. And I pay for what HE is selling me, not what the vocal minority is offering to replace it with.

[Ivtrix]

"Pulling your own weight" involves solving the mechanics with your fellow party members while pressing your class rotation's buttons in the right order. One does not need to use FFLogs or ACT to do so. We have a training dummy called Stone, Sky, Sea that the devs believe is sufficient. If one needs third-party, fan-made content to play the game, then the game is incomplete.

I would totally understand if people wanted to use parsing only as a quality-of-life measure. However, the discussion in here has shown that not everyone in this community is a good-faith steward. This worsening attitude is most concerning: high-end content becoming gatekeeped by the hands of a vocal minority who use a particular third-party tool to promote their own superiority and power. They set the standard of what it means to "pull your own weight". Then they direct people to "uninstall" if they object. This is not how FFXIV was supposed to be, and the director himself has spoken emphatically against this. And I pay for what HE is selling me, not what the vocal minority is offering to replace it with.

Stone Sea and Sky is not very well balanced, especially for tanks and even more so for healers. It is not a good metric by any means.

[Absimiliard]

[MintnHoney]

The FFXIV community ought to aspire to be better than what we've seen here. If people cannot do it themselves, then we need to have safeguards to prevent our community from spiraling out of control like other games have.

We do. It's called the report function, which happens to be a good-faith function that has been abused by players who would probably consider themselves as being justified in what would normally be considered harassment, because they were given rule-related reason to take things too far.

I'd rather see those players get banned than anyone using a plugin and minding their own business.

[Ralphe2449]

"Pulling your own weight" involves solving the mechanics with your fellow party members while pressing your class rotation's buttons in the right order.

More importantly there's something people forget, you dont NEED/REQUIRE optimal/perfect play(talking about every single gcd perfect) for even the hardest content in ANY mmorpg because if that were the case, only a handful people and scripts would be able to beat it.

And then you add increases in gear power which further expand that room for error. How do you think guilds carry people or sell runs if the room for error is not quite enormous once you are geared.

Sadly a problem we have is that clueless tryhards beat said "hard" content as a group without realizing how said content works and think they achieved something great in life and unironically believe they should be respected and that their way of playing/opinions is more important, hence why so much entitlement when it comes to "DEVS SHOULD LISTEN TO US!!, (because we aint dirty casuals")


If you take that 8 man savage encounter, sunder it into 8 singular pieces into solo encounters with the same % room for error, most decent players will beat it and even feel it wasnt very challenging, because the reality is the illusion of challenge that exists from group content comes from the failures and sub optimal performance of other people, the very fact you can clear with people dead or people having damage down for multiple minutes screams at how big the room for error is.

But hey, if they acknowledge this they wont be able to believe they achieved something great in life xD

I dont think they ll ban such addons, Yoshi P himself most likely enjoys using them personally but knows that the average tryhard is incapable to using them correctly so the best solution is what we have right now.

[Saraide]

snip

What form that moderation takes has to be based on what's going to work. If that's through punishing individual bad actors or general rule enforcer's presence is secondary, as long as it works. Active moderation isnt just responding to reports. It's everything moderators engage in beyond that to keep a healthy environment. In many groups moderators will actively tell people to knock it off whatever they are doing because even though it's not technically against the rules (yet) what they are doing is still disruptive for the group in some way. The idea you describe is also active moderation so I get the feeling you do agree in some form to the idea behind what I am trying to describe? To me it seems to be more suited towards groups of young children but if people in this game are behaving maturely or not is not a judgement I am going to say out loud in this comment.

Good match!!

*banhammered*

More like:

Good Match!
Good Match!
Good Match!
Nice Job!
Good Match!
Good Match!
Nice Job!
Good Match!
Nice Job!
Good Match!
Good Match!

in the span of a second or two right after as we lose the game.

[Vahlnir]

More like:

Good Match!
Good Match!
Good Match!
Nice Job!
Good Match!
Good Match!
Nice Job!
Good Match!
Nice Job!
Good Match!
Good Match!

in the span of a second or two right after as we lose the game.

I've yet to see it quite THAT obnoxious, but I've seen some pretty obviously sarcastic "Nice job!"s every now and then. Honestly, I've tried my best to use the chat options we are given in an attempt to keep people focused, but most times it's like trying to herd a clowder of cats. Spamming is also something I avoid in any situation, because that can be pretty easily mistaken for malicious intentions. I have just accepted my fate at this point and try to be as much of a nuisance to the enemy team as I can and hope for the best, which is more than can be said of a lot of people in CC.

[VelKallor]

in the span of a second or two right after as we lose the game.

In any game, any situation, anywhere, victory is never gauranteed.

I see no harm in at least being polite, the other team may very well have just been better, so recriminations and fingerpointing get you nowhere. The same team may very well win the next one. I see no problem with sportsmanship..as one of our Aussie Olympians said after she lost a relay race badly "We did our best..but in all truth it was an honour to have just been here and selected."

How you act, how you handle yourself when you cannot win, is in itself a true test of character.

I will borrow a quote from more than one source that says the same thing

"You can do it all right, make no mistakes and still lose"

If others want to go off on tirades, angry because they lost....thats their failing.

So again, I see no issue in being gracious in defeat.

[KDSilver]

There's not much to debate here.
Use whatever you like that fit your needs (not cheating) as long as you don't talk about it (because it's technically forbidden but they can't check what's on your PC) or harass others with it.

Same answer as always.

[Jojoya]

I'd rather see those players get banned than anyone using a plugin and minding their own business.

Those using plugins that mind their own business already have nothing to fear. No one is going to know they're using a plugin because they don't talk about it and they don't use it to discriminate against others.

It's when they try to make turn their business into other people's business as well that it becomes a problem.