Yoshi-P "definitive" answer on third party tools from today's 14 hour stream

[Ransu]

As a paying customer, I no longer wish to see this toxicity in my game. This thread demonstrates why. Parsing can and should be forcibly removed from the game.

Parsing is perfectly fine. Open parsing and having a built in parser is not which is what we were arguing against.

[Johners]

Parsing is perfectly fine. Open parsing and having a built in parser is not which is what we were arguing against.

I'm not even aware of any game with a built-in parser? WoW has an included combat logging function which simply saves the combat log (battle log in XIV terminology) to a .txt file. However, this is useless on it's own as you'd still need to analyse it and compare the data against a databse of over combat logs which is what you do by then uploading it to Warcraft Logs.

The vast majority of negative interactions caused by parsing can be dealt with by the game masters actually moderating the game. The fact that Yoshi-P would rather just hide an entire data set in a tab target MMO that's driven by numbers is just an incredibly negative approach to take and is ultimately detrimental to the player experience.

[Saraide]

I'm not even aware of any game with a built-in parser? WoW has an included combat logging function which simply saves the combat log (battle log in XIV terminology) to a .txt file. However, this is useless on it's own as you'd still need to analyse it and compare the data against a databse of over combat logs which is what you do by then uploading it to Warcraft Logs.

The vast majority of negative interactions caused by parsing can be dealt with by the game masters actually moderating the game. The fact that Yoshi-P would rather just hide an entire data set in a tab target MMO that's driven by numbers is just an incredibly negative approach to take and is ultimately detrimental to the player experience.

You are 100% correct. The only thing that can cut down toxicity is active moderation by competent moderators.

[VelKallor]

You are 100% correct. The only thing that can cut down toxicity is active moderation by competent moderators.

Saraide, Im not sure thats a true conclusion. The key element is deterrence, whilst in some areas yes it does help, the issue is that what you do with a single player's bad behaviour doesnt always translate into that same paradigm...it doesnt DETER that behaviour.

Laugh if you will, but another game decided to create an island to isolate troublemakers, problem is that as a result, some players behaved badly JUST TO BE SENT THERE as a mark of 'manhood" "street cred" or some other idiotic concept.

Go look up Drunder.

What is my idea of deterrence?

Its what I suggested back to a GM back in WOW...the idea was shot down of course, but try this.

You are in Limsa being a jerk, all of a sudden you get an all areas broadcast "To the guy being an idiot, we see you, we see what you are doing, we are watching, so KNOCK IT OFF."

No one person is singled out..but the one they are talking to will get that message loud and clear. People tend to behave VERY differently when they know someone is looking over their shoulder.

Its a harsh message "we see all we know all"..the very best RL example of this was when i was travelling to work and a bunch of schoolkids were running back and forth, throwing things..and a transit cop stepped into the carraige.

She didnt say a word, didnt move, just stood there with her arms folded..one by one the kids noticed, she just said nothing, stared them down, eyes flicking from one kid to another. You better believe they sat there, silent the entire time.

A minute or more passed, she looked at all of them again, nodded and left.

I swear to Heaven it was as if a switch had been thrown , they didnt utter a PEEP for the rest of the trip..or talked quietly.

I have taken flack for commenting that whilst leaving parsers out wont stop toxicity and abusive behavior ( I willingly concede the point , they are indeed correct ) but at the same time making logs OPT IN rather than opt out, restricting access maybe by password so only those who NEED to know get to see them...parsers and logs, by their nature enable and encourage such behavior.

I am, of course aware many will disagree or dismiss my conclusions, I do however stand by them.

[FireMage]

Boy you just keep digging that hole deeper, don't you? You can attempt to equivocate all you like. Doesn't change facts.
Fact 1.) This person expressed an opinion you disagree with.
Fact 2.) You replied by attempting to silence them based on a parse taken from inconsequential content.

Your little cactuar friend may warn you about a lot of things, but it won't help you avoid the truth.

Again, lack of knowledge, showed that they don't understand how the game works as demonstrated by their poor performance

[Absimiliard]

Then you call them out on that, not their parses. If you want to use a parser to curate groups or monitor your own progress, that's all good and well. It's your row to hoe. Dragging someone's numbers into a forum debate, on the other hand, destroys your argument instead of helping it, and it opens you up to having your own failings exposed besides.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I love this comment. It makes me think of how crystal conflict had open chat removed entirely and just left us with pre-written messages. It also is the content where I reported the most people in for toxic behavior.

Good match!!

*banhammered*

[FireMage]

Then you call them out on that, not their parses. If you want to use a parser to curate groups or monitor your own progress, that's all good and well. It's your row to hoe. Dragging someone's numbers into a forum debate, on the other hand, destroys your argument instead of helping it, and it opens you up to having your own failings exposed besides.

Their numbers were pertinent in showing they don't know how the game works. Can you improve your reading comprehension?

[Absimiliard]

Right back to throwing stones while standing in a glass house, I see.

[HolyReign]

"Mad because Bad." Ehh???

Well since you're a fan of sayings and phrases, I'll share one with you.

"Pot meet Kettle."