Yoshi-P "definitive" answer on third party tools from today's 14 hour stream

[FireMage]

You do realize you're not supposed to be doing that right? That reportable abuse

First off, prove it. Second, no it's not, a PF lead can remove a person from their party for ANY reason

[FireMage]

Imagine thinking posting like this is going to make anyone listen to you. *le sigh*

You're free to illustrate what else they have to offer then. Hop to it

[Ransu]

Imagine thinking that holding people accountable for playing like garbage is a bad thing

Imagine players like you not realizing the current system is protecting you. Your logs are almost entirely grey and green. An open parsed game would have you basically never being able to do any savage raids.

[FireMage]

Imagine players like you not realizing the current system is protecting you. Your logs are almost entirely grey and green. An open parsed game would have you basically never being able to do any savage raids.

You might wish to get your eyes checked

[Midareyukki]

First off, prove it. Second, no it's not, a PF lead can remove a person from their party for ANY reason

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

Would this help?

What you're looking for is the part that says "・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc."
There are others that tangentially rub on the topic as well. Such as "・Unjustified usage of Vote Dismiss".
There's also "■Behavior that disrupts the game balance" which is basically a repeat of the TOS's Section 2 and includes a mention to stuff that operates like parsers, which take game data without being authorized.

You also have Section 2 of the TOS, titled "LICENSE LIMITATIONS", for general approach to any third party tool or modification of the game's code or assets: No.
Section 10 and 11.3 say that user disputes will not be mediated between Square, they expect you to be a grown-up and figure yourselves out. But Section 3.2 is really vague in that it kind of reads like "if you interfere with peoples' enjoyment of the game at all, it can be considered an offence"?

3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.

it's weird. This one's weird. [edited:]

Section 3.2 mostly deals with cases where you get stalked or disrupted while you're out playing the game normally. Say having numerous people hounding all over your screen if you happen to be a popular streamer of the asmonbald kind, barring you from interacting to npcs or points of interest.

Okay so it's actual disruption and not "The party couldn't clear X content, we disband, but some stooge wanted to continue and he can argue that I impeded his prog somehow". Alright then.

[Atelier-Bagur]

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

Would this help?

What you're looking for is the part that says "・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc."
There are others that tangentially rub on the topic as well. Such as "・Unjustified usage of Vote Dismiss".
There's also "■Behavior that disrupts the game balance" which is basically a repeat of the TOS's Section 2 and includes a mention to stuff that operates like parsers, which take game data without being authorized.

You also have Section 2 of the TOS, titled "LICENSE LIMITATIONS", for general approach to any third party tool or modification of the game's code or assets: No.
Section 10 and 11.3 say that user disputes will not be mediated between Square, they expect you to be a grown-up and figure yourselves out. But Section 3.2 is really vague in that it kind of reads like "if you interfere with peoples' enjoyment of the game at all, it can be considered an offence"?

it's weird. This one's weird.

Section 3.2 mostly deals with cases where you get stalked or disrupted while you're out playing the game normally. Say having numerous people hounding all over your screen if you happen to be a popular streamer of the asmonbald kind, barring you from interacting to npcs or points of interest.

[SaberMaxwell]

I mean, disregarding that "proof of intent" is such a hard thing to prove that even irl courts tend to not go anywhere near it...

"Expressions" is the anti-racism anti-sexism anti-homophobia clause, that one I guess could stretch to anti-parsism, but again proof of intent is needed.

"Vote dismiss" is not the same as kicking someone from a PF. People have every right even now to play with who they want, and not play with people they don't want.

You're not necessarily wrong to interpret ToS that way Midare, though the easiest way to read ToS begins and ends with "We reserve the right to bar you from our service at our sole discretion, as well as the right to change the rules whenever we deem fit and interpret them however we see fit." They're a legal catch-all in case a player tries to go to court more than an actual agreement to terms between the client and provider.

[FireMage]

And on the matter of vote dismiss you may kick someone for "differences in gameplay". In other words people that aren't performing

[Midareyukki]

I mean, disregarding that "proof of intent" is such a hard thing to prove that even irl courts tend to not go anywhere near it...
"Expressions" is the anti-racism anti-sexism anti-homophobia clause, that one I guess could stretch to anti-parsism, but again proof of intent is needed.

No it's not, read the cases:

"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you're going to talk like that, why don't you just quit?"
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Let's ignore them."
"Let’s leave [person] out."
"It's not worth wasting our time, you should quit."
"Don't join if your equipment is that bad/such a low item level."

These aren't dismissing you for belonging to a demographic, they're dismissing you for underperforming. Square's the one who wrote those examples, the homophobia/racism bit? That's on another part : o

"Vote dismiss" is not the same as kicking someone from a PF. People have every right even now to play with who they want, and not play with people they don't want.

True. Which is why I said tangentially rubbed on it, because you can use Vote Dismiss on someone after revealing they're being bad on parses.

And on the matter of vote dismiss you may kick someone for "differences in gameplay". In other words people that aren't performing

Ah. Now that's a different matter entirely, because that's when context comes in. But you cannot use parses as the excuse for it : o

You're not necessarily wrong to interpret ToS that way Midare, though the easiest way to read ToS begins and ends with "We reserve the right to bar you from our service at our sole discretion, as well as the right to change the rules whenever we deem fit and interpret them however we see fit." They're a legal catch-all in case a player tries to go to court more than an actual agreement to terms between the client and provider.

Well, yeah, I'm a linguist not a lawyer xD and again, some stuff is oddly vague. But I'm not wrong at least in the first part, because that's what Square themselves say. Second part? Again, it felt weird.

[Saraide]

Imagine players like you not realizing the current system is protecting you. Your logs are almost entirely grey and green. An open parsed game would have you basically never being able to do any savage raids.

Even if what you say about FireMage's logs was true, you'd still be wrong. You might not be able to clear week 1 but a few weeks in with a big more gear even a group of greys and greens can clear the dps checks. Just as it is right now.

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

Would this help?

What you're looking for is the part that says "・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc."
There are others that tangentially rub on the topic as well. Such as "・Unjustified usage of Vote Dismiss".
There's also "■Behavior that disrupts the game balance" which is basically a repeat of the TOS's Section 2 and includes a mention to stuff that operates like parsers, which take game data without being authorized.

You also have Section 2 of the TOS, titled "LICENSE LIMITATIONS", for general approach to any third party tool or modification of the game's code or assets: No.
Section 10 and 11.3 say that user disputes will not be mediated between Square, they expect you to be a grown-up and figure yourselves out. But Section 3.2 is really vague in that it kind of reads like "if you interfere with peoples' enjoyment of the game at all, it can be considered an offence"?

it's weird. This one's weird.

Vote dismiss is entirely irrelevant. We are talking about PFs. 'Expressions that exclude someone' is also irrelevant because you do not need to state a reason to kick someone from your PF. You can do so without saying a single word. No PF host is forced to keep you in the party. You have no right to be in someone's PF party, they are giving you the privilege to be there.