Yoshi-P "definitive" answer on third party tools from today's 14 hour stream

[Azuri]

It was a straight answer, you're just being dishonest now. We know this is what would happen because past precident has demonstrated that this is what happens in other MMO's that allow open parsing.

Unless you're suggesting that XIV inherantly poops unicorns and rainbows so is immune to the toxic MMO culture that has fucked other MMO's over, then thats what would happen.

If you dont know about WoW, 5 minutes cringing on YouTube will be more than enough.

Ah, but it did in fact already happen in XIV. Parsing is direct and open in all but name. And you can still make a practice party in PF and fill it... How curious. Maybe some unicorns and rainbows are indeed involved.

Anyway, thank you for reinforcing my points. Our "worlds" are simply too different to ever cooperate productively, although they can co-exist. And it would simply be better for everybody involved if we had the ability to separate them.

[Themarvin]

He say it is not ok to use third party tools for whichever that includes, it say so in the ToS as well.

[Ransu]

How many times are people going to pester him with this question until they finally pay attention to the giant flashing neon sign that reads "Fight Club"?

If I had to guess, it's mostly console players making a stink about it.

[Tiramu]

It's working right now because that curation is already happening. You are trying to scare us of the current system. A system you yourself think isnt broken to begin with.

I help people in PF all the time, I've never had anyone request logs. Might be more popular on NA data centres or something. So no, Im not trying to scare you away from the current open system.

Still, using your FC is still going to be better if you want a more curated group. I mean, you might have to help your fellow FC mates with stuff from time to time, but still.

[Saraide]

I help people in PF all the time, I've never had anyone request logs.

Then you are already not in the circles that care about looking for logs. That great for everyone involved. No one needs to request logs when fflogs already exists. If you hide your logs you are telling people that care about logs in the parties they make that you dont want to play with them and that's fine. But that is how it is working right now.

[Payadopa]

You have seen other MMO's? WoW perhaps?

Your answer is there. We already know because thats precisely what happens in other MMO's.

Pretty much. People are quick to dream up this hardcore heaven (and don't get me wrong, I like raiding and diffuculty), but there is already enough evidence out there that shoes you where it leads. I got to be honest, if XIV were to cater to either side exclusively I'd be out. I want neither baby's first MMO, nor FFLogs or bust.

[Midareyukki]

He say it is not ok to use third party tools for whichever that includes, it say so in the ToS as well.

The way I interpreted it was... that, especially considering that he wasn't comfortable with the topic and rambled a bit. But with an added "Yes, but I don't want people to care too much about them and going on reporting sprees just because people are using add-ons."

So they're not going to persecute people for it, they're not going to implement anti-cheating software in the game and they're not going to encourage people to mass-report others just because they're using plug-ins or parses or mods or whatever. So it's against the ToS for sure, but they're somewhat hazy on how they're going to enforce it. So as much as it may make people feel uncomfortable that these exist and that people are using them, Square's stance is "we're highly against it, but we're not going to bother with you unless you decide to take it too far".

And that means that if you use mods indiscreetly or if you use stuff like parses to attack people and make them feel unwelcome, then that's a no-deal and they will do something about it. As it's always been. Because then you're not just casually name-dropping third party tools, you're influencing peoples' experience of the game and\or being overtly blatant that you're breaking the ToS, and those are the lines you can't step.

[FireMage]

Very true. As I said, it’s not up to Yoshida, but the community itself. And even though the American community is rigorous in enforcing parses for statics, the Japanese one is even worse, with shared blacklists and doxxing campaigns against those with bad numbers.

I only wish that new players were made aware of this reality before investing their time in this game. Had I known several years ago just how bad the game would get, I likely wouldn’t have ever bothered. The casual content has been getting progressively shallower and more sparse, leaving only savage as the redeeming value of our subscription. And that has progressively turned more and more WoW-like, as your post illustrated. So many people are getting suckered in to this game thinking it’s a decent casual and non-toxic experience when, as you said, it’s anything but.

In other words, people think FFXIV is a respite from a competitive world when, instead, it reinforces it and its Darwinian savagery. Yoshida just keeps ripping people off with lies and false hopes. The world is cruel and FFXIV is no different.

Imagine thinking that holding people accountable for playing like garbage is a bad thing

[FireMage]

There is nothing wrong you say but checking logs as a requirement is already wrong. Putting focus on a players damage numbers is not nor should it ever be the be all end all judgement of their skill

Imagine thinking they have anything else to offer in regards to skill if they can't perform

[Boblawblah]

Imagine thinking they have anything else to offer in regards to skill if they can't perform

Imagine thinking posting like this is going to make anyone listen to you. *le sigh*