Yoshi-P "definitive" answer on third party tools from today's 14 hour stream

[Tiramu]

Ah yes, by page 8 we are discussing how someone making a personal decision who to party up with for group content is the terrible boogeyman. As scheduled.

Yoshi mentally lives in a cuckoo world where everyone loves each other and every underperformer gets their personal little happy carry-pony who just smiles and drags them to victory. Real people don't work that way though.

Really? This crap cuts both ways.

On the one hand, you might scoff at casuals and want to gatekeep content so casuals dont pollute your play. But on the other hand, you could equally say "boo hoo, SE didnt make this game for you. It was made to be an MMO thats accessible to a casual FF audience, so if you dont like it, you know where WoW is". Its been working wonderfully over there

And that is part of the crap they want to avoid, crap you are an active participant in.

Also, you are more than capable of deciding who to party up with as it stands, its called your FC or forming a static.

The rules as they stand are quite simple and fair. Blanket ban, use at your own risk. If you're not using cheats or mouthing off about your parses, then they arent interested in you.


Also, on the topic of parsing specifically, for as long as FFLogs collects data from players who dont have mods installed and havent consented to their data being collected and pubished you are highly unlikely to SE even consider buckling, and will find resistance from players.

Its been raised several times in this thread and is a perfectly legitimate point of contention. Its the number one reason I'm not a fan of parsers, well beyond someone asking for my parse.

As for whitelists, they are entitled not to want to deal with all the crap that comes with it. Like, people getting upset that their fave mod isnt on the whitelist, or if a mod dev does something SE doesnt like and blacklists it; and the inevitable shitstorm that would ensue.

[Azuri]

Really? This crap cuts both ways.

On the one hand, you might scoff at casuals and want to gatekeep content so casuals dont pollute your play. But on the other hand, you could equally say "boo hoo, SE didnt make this game for you. It was made to be an MMO thats accessible to a casual FF audience, so if you dont like it, you know where WoW is". Its been working wonderfully over there

And that is part of the crap they want to avoid, crap you are an active participant in.

Also, you are more than capable of deciding who to party up with as it stands, its called your FC or forming a static.

The rules as they stand are quite simple and fair. Blanket ban, use at your own risk. If you're not using cheats or mouthing off about your parses, then they arent interested in you.


Also, on the topic of parsing specifically, for as long as FFLogs collects data from players who dont have mods installed and havent consented to their data being collected and pubished you are highly unlikely to SE even consider buckling, and will find resistance from players.

Its been raised several times in this thread and is a perfectly legitimate point of contention. Its the number one reason I'm not a fan of parsers, well beyond someone asking for my parse.

As for whitelists, they are entitled not to want to deal with all the crap that comes with it. Like, people getting upset that their fave mod isnt on the whitelist, or if a mod dev does something SE doesnt like and blacklists it; and the inevitable shitstorm that would ensue.

See, no matter how much we both despise each other we will always be forced to share this game. Any game, really. For the simple reason that Yoshi (and any developer, really) likes money. Games are created to cater to wide audiences. A little bit for everyone. So we can milk all that sweet sweet cash.

This I understand entirely and don't see point arguing with. Although I do think that Yoshi's idea of trying to "marry" the two audiences is doomed to fail. We will never see eye to eye. For you, I'm a toxic elitist here to ruin your fun. For me, you are a blight on gaming industry here to casual-ise every game. There can be no compromise.

So why not let us segregate each other? We'd be happy to do so, one would think. Casuals playing with casuals and having fun. Elitists playing with elitists and also being happy. If you don't want to play with one or the other group, you don't have to. Why having a system that allows players to facilitate this segregation easily a bad thing? Two very different groups sharing the same world but rarely mixing and largely ignoring each other. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

[Atelier-Bagur]

See, no matter how much we both despise each other we will always be forced to share this game. Any game, really. For the simple reason that Yoshi (and any developer, really) likes money. Games are created to cater to wide audiences. A little bit for everyone. So we can milk all that sweet sweet cash.

This I understand entirely and don't see point arguing with. Although I do think that Yoshi's idea of trying to "marry" the two audiences is doomed to fail. We will never see eye to eye. For you, I'm a toxic elitist here to ruin your fun. For me, you are a blight on gaming industry here to casual-ise every game. There can be no compromise.

So why not let us segregate each other? We'd be happy to do so, one would think. Casuals playing with casuals and having fun. Elitists playing with elitists and also being happy. If you don't want to play with one or the other group, you don't have to. Why having a system that allows players to facilitate this segregation easily a bad thing? Two very different groups sharing the same world but rarely mixing and largely ignoring each other. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

Separate but equal. Why do I feel so nervous hearing somebody say something like this

[Missbone]

So in short, everyone can use as much third party tools as they like and mod the shit out of the game SE dosnt care.

[Tiramu]

See, no matter how much we both despise each other we will always be forced to share this game. Any game, really. For the simple reason that Yoshi (and any developer, really) likes money. Games are created to cater to wide audiences. A little bit for everyone. So we can milk all that sweet sweet cash.

This I understand entirely and don't see point arguing with. Although I do think that Yoshi's idea of trying to "marry" the two audiences is doomed to fail. We will never see eye to eye. For you, I'm a toxic elitist here to ruin your fun. For me, you are a blight on gaming industry here to casual-ise every game. There can be no compromise.

So why not let us segregate each other? We'd be happy to do so, one would think. Casuals playing with casuals and having fun. Elitists playing with elitists and also being happy. If you don't want to play with one or the other group, you don't have to. Why having a system that allows players to facilitate this segregation easily a bad thing? Two very different groups sharing the same world but rarely mixing and largely ignoring each other. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

I dont despise you, and Im not a blight on the industry... silly boy. What a stupid thing to say.

While Im not hardcore, I wouldnt exactly call myself casual either. Like, while I dont claim to be the best player in the world, I take my jobs seriously and try to be the best I can be.

I just dont like gatekeeping and tantrums from grown ass adults over videogames. My children act like that, I tolerate it because they're children. I'd prefer not to step from 2 kids having meltdowns over videogames to adults having meltdowns over videogames. If that makes me a blight on the gaming industry then so be it.

Like I said before, you have FC's and statics to separate you, without needing to have people waving parse qualifications in peoples faces and having meltdowns over player performance.

[SannaR]

So in short, everyone can use as much third party tools as they like and mod the shit out of the game SE dosnt care.

As long as you keep it in your pants. I mean uh... on the down low and don't harass people with it. Or you don't openly advertise it. Then yes. They would love it if no one used it as it's all against the ToS. They haven't moved their stance on this since it first got asked. Which is don't do it, but if you are going to then we won't know that you're doing so unless you're an idiot and being loud enough to get looked at.

[Boblawblah]

So in short, everyone can use as much third party tools as they like and mod the shit out of the game SE dosnt care.

Why is nuance so difficult for people?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Why is nuance so difficult for people?

Because people can be childish

[Payadopa]

See, no matter how much we both despise each other we will always be forced to share this game. Any game, really. For the simple reason that Yoshi (and any developer, really) likes money. Games are created to cater to wide audiences. A little bit for everyone. So we can milk all that sweet sweet cash.

This I understand entirely and don't see point arguing with. Although I do think that Yoshi's idea of trying to "marry" the two audiences is doomed to fail. We will never see eye to eye. For you, I'm a toxic elitist here to ruin your fun. For me, you are a blight on gaming industry here to casual-ise every game. There can be no compromise.

So why not let us segregate each other? We'd be happy to do so, one would think. Casuals playing with casuals and having fun. Elitists playing with elitists and also being happy. If you don't want to play with one or the other group, you don't have to. Why having a system that allows players to facilitate this segregation easily a bad thing? Two very different groups sharing the same world but rarely mixing and largely ignoring each other. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

That is a surprisingly self-reflective take. Nice.
That being said, if we were to allow what you say nobody would ever get into the elite club as you'd be expected to know everything immediately and be perfect which I find kinda self-defeating. Why play a game I'm already perfect in? The middle ground we have right now works well enough. I don't need that LoL BS or whatever similar game.

Also, you're completely leaving out the possibility that a casual/hardcore gamer might come around to the other's perspective. How many have started as a casual only to start raiding? How many had life happen to them and now just want to take in a little bit slower (without completely leaving the raiding scene)? The current system is a good compromise (which doesn't mean I agree with everything, like the state of healers or SE balancing jobs into the ground).

[Atelier-Bagur]

That is a surprisingly self-reflective take. Nice.
That being said, if we were to allow what you say nobody would ever get into the elite club as you'd be expected to know everything immediately and be perfect which I find kinda self-defeating. Why play a game I'm already perfect in? The middle ground we have right now works well enough. I don't need that LoL BS or whatever similar game.

Also, you're completely leaving out the possibility that a casual/hardcore gamer might come around to the other's perspective. How many have started as a casual only to start raiding? How many had life happen to them and now just want to take in a little bit slower (without completely leaving the raiding scene)? The current system is a good compromise (which doesn't mean I agree with everything, like the state of healers or SE balancing jobs into the ground).

Exactly, why fix something that already works? Rather we need is to improve upon the design choice for both audiences not further alienate them