Proposed changes for underperforming jobs

[Aikaal]

Oh, it is more mobile than ever, even if Enchanted Reprise is nerfed. Two Accelerations, too. But it's still the least mobile mage now thanks to BLM and SMN changes. I feel more mobile on BLM for Barb ex than RDM.

That's true. They did gain mobility and it really sucks for Enchanted Reprise that it's a "last resort button". In general, you can get away from any situation on RDM. There's a few factors to take into.
- BLM did receive nice mobility tools and it is literally on demand so BLMs will use as little as possible to keep everything in their buff window.
- SMN is quite frankly a ranged physical that has 4 casts per minute.
- RDM mobility is slapped on their melee combos, acceleration stacks & swiftcast. All of that mobility can be used to maximize damage.

In a world where RDM currently struggles to do high damage, any RDM player will keep everything for DPS. Acceleration rolling on CD all the time. Using Acceleration/Swiftcast when you have no proc and you don't want to Jolt II. Maybe Fleche or Contre Sixte has 2s left on it's CD and you don't want your oGCD to drift? Need a faster instant cast than dual cast.

The worst imho is the feeling that you absolutely need to saved 3 melee combos for your pot. RDM suffers the exact same curse than RPRs. 2m/8m buff windows. Unless a fight is too short (more than half the fights of this tier) where you'd 0m/6m pot window and the 0 minute pot window feels awful. It's one thing to not have a triple melee combo with your pot. It's another to burn a pot only for 1 melee combo. Death is incredibly more punishing on RDM than SMN/BLM because dying before a big rebuff window means you've lost all those resources you kept for melee combos. You can curse yourself when it's your own fault but it's really frustrating if a team mate caused you to die or a domino effect caused you to die. Imho, that's not very healthy for the job but that's a personal opinion.

Oh, fun fact mainly for melees who don't play casters and RDM in this case, did y'all know every time a RDM is out of instant cast proc and fails to get a proc and must cast Jolt II he loses a bit of black/white mana and 20 potency per cast? That awfully sounds like when a melee is out of TN stacks and may lose 1 positional I like it when melee purists use the positional excuse when some job was RNG they can't do much about.

[Aurora428]

That's true. They did gain mobility and it really sucks for Enchanted Reprise that it's a "last resort button". In general, you can get away from any situation on RDM. There's a few factors to take into.
- BLM did receive nice mobility tools and it is literally on demand so BLMs will use as little as possible to keep everything in their buff window.
- SMN is quite frankly a ranged physical that has 4 casts per minute.
- RDM mobility is slapped on their melee combos, acceleration stacks & swiftcast. All of that mobility can be used to maximize damage.

In a world where RDM currently struggles to do high damage, any RDM player will keep everything for DPS. Acceleration rolling on CD all the time. Using Acceleration/Swiftcast when you have no proc and you don't want to Jolt II. Maybe Fleche or Contre Sixte has 2s left on it's CD and you don't want your oGCD to drift? Need a faster instant cast than dual cast.

The worst imho is the feeling that you absolutely need to saved 3 melee combos for your pot. RDM suffers the exact same curse than RPRs. 2m/8m buff windows. Unless a fight is too short (more than half the fights of this tier) where you'd 0m/6m pot window and the 0 minute pot window feels awful. It's one thing to not have a triple melee combo with your pot. It's another to burn a pot only for 1 melee combo. Death is incredibly more punishing on RDM than SMN/BLM because dying before a big rebuff window means you've lost all those resources you kept for melee combos. You can curse yourself when it's your own fault but it's really frustrating if a team mate caused you to die or a domino effect caused you to die. Imho, that's not very healthy for the job but that's a personal opinion.

Oh, fun fact mainly for melees who don't play casters and RDM in this case, did y'all know every time a RDM is out of instant cast proc and fails to get a proc and must cast Jolt II he loses a bit of black/white mana and 20 potency per cast? That awfully sounds like when a melee is out of TN stacks and may lose 1 positional I like it when melee purists use the positional excuse when some job was RNG they can't do much about.

The only mechanic this tier that puts substantial strain on True North is Fourfold Fires in P8S P1. The only damage gap that melee should have relating to positionals are the ones that aren't given out for free, "free" including spaced out mechanics where True North is readily and easily available.

No, melee don't deserve extra damage for walking to the side when literally nothing is going on.

You could INTENTIONALLY miss every positional and crush ranged, so that's a bad argument anyways

[Amh_Wilzuun]

We need less party buffs in the game, not more. Just buff their base damage and make them a true selfish dps or give them mitigation based utility. As this tier has shown mitigation is very important and MCH doing high damage while reducing some more damage on the party could be useful.

Also I’ll make the same suggestion I made in another threads in regards to reducing the potency of the party buff window:

-Brotherhood is reduced to a 3% buff to make it like RPR’s arcane circle since both are high damage jobs. Or just remove it and keep the chakra effect.

-Embolden: make it only a personal buff for RDM and buff their damage and white utility in return.

-Battle Litany: make it a buff for your dragon sight partner only. Dragoon already has a clunky amount of buffs to use which I’m sure will be addressed in the rework

-Divination: remove it. It’s a remnant of ShB AST. Instead buff cards which spreads the buffs over the fight.

-etc and jobs like DNC should keep their party buffs since it’s central to their identity

[Foinhas]

Honestly i think the biggest problem with red mage is it's utility rather than damage. This is what i propose:

Vercure now adds 2 white mana and veraise gives 6 white mana. Why? RDM is one of (if not the) jobe that relys in gcds the most, since the combo is the very core of REM gameplay. This way you don't feel like you are shooting yourself in the foot when you uses this skills.

Next i woud add two new skills: one that adds %damage to a player next attack (2.5s cd and gives 2 black mana) and one with 5s cd that gives 6 mana that i still don't know what would do but should be about giving players damage. this way RDM could ACTUALY be a suppot caster instead of having a cure that pretty much means the pull is over, a good raise that's situational at best and one of the worst mitigation abillities in the game

[Arguscbf]

Honestly i think the biggest problem with red mage is it's utility rather than damage. This is what i propose:

Vercure now adds 2 white mana and veraise gives 6 white mana. Why? RDM is one of (if not the) jobe that relys in gcds the most, since the combo is the very core of REM gameplay. This way you don't feel like you are shooting yourself in the foot when you uses this skills.

Next i woud add two new skills: one that adds %damage to a player next attack (2.5s cd and gives 2 black mana) and one with 5s cd that gives 6 mana that i still don't know what would do but should be about giving players damage. this way RDM could ACTUALY be a suppot caster instead of having a cure that pretty much means the pull is over, a good raise that's situational at best and one of the worst mitigation abillities in the game

I'd rather have Verraise with 2 charges(150s cooldown) and more potency buffs!

[Mithron]

I'd rather have Verraise with 2 charges(150s cooldown) and more potency buffs!

Why not just get potency buffs while keeping Verraise as it is? Why should RDM do less damage simply because of Verraise when Verraise should never be used in optimal scenarios? Verraise already takes away a GCD, MP and mana thus DPS loss.

There are no fights in the game where a particular job's non-raid damage buffing utility/mitigation is required. Why should there be a DPS tax for it, then? Especially in the following weeks when the fight becomes easier to farm, it's ridiculous to tax skills you never need to use.

[Arguscbf]

Oh, fun fact mainly for melees who don't play casters and RDM in this case, did y'all know every time a RDM is out of instant cast proc and fails to get a proc and must cast Jolt II he loses a bit of black/white mana and 20 potency per cast? That awfully sounds like when a melee is out of TN stacks and may lose 1 positional I like it when melee purists use the positional excuse when some job was RNG they can't do much about.

THIS!!!
Acceleration should be 45s cooldown and have another additional effect by giving extra 20 potency to the next Verthunder/Veraero to compensate the "no proc" situation.

[darkdyllon]

MCH prio number one at this point.
I think a good starting place would be a flat 5% damage buff, in the form of giving the vulnerability down back, or a personal vuln down like NIN's current Trick Attack. This would be unique enough as a raid buff that it would be good for speed kills, and make it interchangeable with NIN otherwise. If you want to keep the job "selfish", then a personal vuln down buff would still be unique and achieve the same thing. The Mishit window is around 5-8%, so a flat buff would bring it in line and slightly under similarly performing jobs i think.

RPR i dont know why arcane circle is 3%, when it should have always been 5%. In addition, it is a very resource heavy job with a funky 124 loop that also somehow made it through testing. With that said, generating resources in down time is probably also needed. Casting Soul Sow could achieve this, as well as possibly give some when harvest moon is used.

RDMa harder hitting melee combo to start, and some form of faster resource generation. After some thought, I think 90s Manification may achieve that. Some other very slight potency values may be needed as well, but I think the melee combo and manification are a good starting point.

These seem to be the main 3 in the most need. I know other jobs could use some slight changes as well, but the ones that need it most should be a priority, and then proceed from there.

90 second manafication is an terrible idea.
you want to pair manafication with embolden whenever possible since embolden will amp up your attacks while manafication does the same, you want to pair these as much as possible, having it on 90 seconds would just mean you wouldn't use manafication till embolden comes up, which means it'll be around 20 seconds off cooldown.

Honestly overal just more damage in our general kit would be nice, maybe add something to something else, like finishing an melee combo adds more damage to your 2 finishers since you can get your 2 finishers without completing the full melee combo.
or it gives you 1 dual cast for 45 seconds, something to that effect, but lowering manafication just adds clunkyness to the job since you want to use manafication as much as you can, but you also want to pair it with embolden (since that's at the party burst) but if you have manafication at 90 seconds you'll have manafication at 1:30, 3:00, 4:30, 5:00, 6:30, 8:00, 9:30 and then 11:00 (assuming you haven't killed the encounter yet)
so assuming this you would either hold manafication or use it on cooldown, using it on cooldown only has 2 aligned manafication through the fight since either you're 30 seconds too early, or 1 minute too late, or the other way around.

[darkdyllon]

I'm gonna disagree with this assessment and say RDM is now more mobile than ever. Your mana gen to melee combo ratio is ROUGHLY the same--you gen less but it costs less, so roughly speaking its still ~40s to generate a melee combo. What this also means is you can bank your melee combo for longer than ever before. In StB / ShB, you had 2 to 4 gcds after becoming melee combo ready where you would begin overcapping, so it wasa very small window of being able to decide when to start the combo.

Also a typical mistake I see in new rdms these days is burning every melee combo you've got in the 2 minute. The 2 minute burst is over by the time you finish your second combo--even your own embo--so no point in burning that final melee so quick, might as well hold for when mobility is needed.

Sure they destroyed E. Reprise for some reason but they made Accel into the best thing I never knew I wanted.

All this to say: I don't want RDM to get even more mobility than it has. It's good as is--it's FUN as is. Resource management on rdm is better than its ever been and its honestly super enjoyable even in tiers like Abyssos that make me wanna scream due to mechanics like Purgation.

I just wanna feel like I'm not griefing my party by playing a job I have fun with.

you're literally contradicting yourself with that purgation comment.
you enter your pot window right before purgation, if you pooled correctly you can actually keep an melee combo for the 1st purgation movement (assuming sleepo strat)
you use your melee combo to move from 1 side to the other (enough time) then start casting normally again, then use your accel/swiftcasts for the next movement, you can get to the next platform before having to hardcast again, which you have plenty of time for to get into your next position since your hardcast into slidecast into dualcast gives you plenty of time to get into place for the next hit.
then use another melee combo for the 3rd movement.
then use sprint+slide casting/dual casts to get to the other side for the 4th movement.
then just slidecast to the last side which takes even longer to go off, i never really had an issue with purgation as an RDM and i keep full uptime.

you're contradicting yourself with stating that an typical mistake is to burn both your melee combo's, but then say purgation makes you scream.

[SaberMaxwell]

I'm...contradicting myself? Are you just trying to use combative words to place yourself in a position above me or seem somehow correct? Trying to flex how you managed to pool and bank resources for an objectively difficult mechanic for casters correctly when to do it you're doing some suboptimal 0/6 minute pot stuff?

I'm not seeing how I "contradicted" myself at all, especially because you even apparently misread what I said was a common mistake. What point am I contradicting myself on? That RDM is more mobile than ever, which was the claim and thesis of my post? Are you saying ShB and StB RDM could handle Purgation or (I guess when you get there) Cthonic Vents? Or am I contradicting myself by saying I like RDM's current limitations of mobility, of which you needed to detail an entire paragraph to how a RDM should approach Purgation?

Though I do appreciate your play by play of your steps and might appreciate a clip of you managing all that without dropping so much as a single GCD. I think I managed to do a pretty good job of not dropping anything this week of reclears personally, and might even go grab a clip to post here myself.