What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Ameela]

A friend of mine never played a Final Fantasy game before. He played FFXIV for more than a year. When we talked about the story and a lot of it's shortcomings he claimed that was just "typical" for Final Fantasy. FFXIV's bad storytelling shines a bad light on other FFs.

If you held any other FF story to as much scrutiny as XIV's has been in this thread you'd be bound to find just as many flaws, if not more.

[BRVV]

If you held any other FF story to as much scrutiny as XIV's has been in this thread you'd be bound to find just as many flaws, if not more.

Challenge accepted. I choose FFX. Can't really find the flaws so maybe you can help me out?

[Ameela]

Challenge accepted. I choose FFX. Can't really find the flaws so maybe you can help me out?

- Is Dream Zanarkand an alternate dimension? Or is it a physical location in the world? Are the ruins you visit at the end of the game the real Zanarkand or the fake one after being destroyed by Sin? If it's the ruins of the real Zanarkand then what were the other Zanarkand Ruins that Tidus explores at the very start of the game?
- How did Auron know how to get to Dream Zanarkand? This implies it's a physical location on the map, but if anyone from the real world can just walk up and go there then how come no one else has ever found it? And how come no one aside from Jecht and Tidus has ever left?
- Speaking of Auron, it sure is convenient that there's some rule about how not ALL Unsent turn into fiends, only some of them for whatever reason. If an Unsent can just live their life as a normal human after death then why would they ever "resent the living"?
- What's even the point of Seymour's marriage plot? He obviously doesn't have Spira's best interests in mind like he claims, but otherwise there's no real reason to marry Yuna other than to get back at her and Tidus I guess, but he was trying to marry her before they'd even done anything to him. I guess she is pretty cute, but that's hardly a good motivation for your main antagonist.
- If Yu Yevon possesses the Final Aeon whenever it kills Sin before it turns into the new Sin then why doesn't he just remain in control of Sin at all times? That would have saved him a lot of trouble when Sin was actively helping the people trying to put a stop to his plans. I guess he's not omniscient, but he should at least be aware of Sin's whereabouts and movements - in fact since the whole point of Sin was to perserve Dream Zanarkand then it seems pretty unnatural that he wouldn't get pissed about Jecht destroying it as Sin.

[BRVV]

- Is Dream Zanarkand an alternate dimension? Or is it a physical location in the world? Are the ruins you visit at the end of the game the real Zanarkand or the fake one after being destroyed by Sin? If it's the ruins of the real Zanarkand then what were the other Zanarkand Ruins that Tidus explores at the very start of the game?

Dream Zanarkand is a physical location you can go to. It was not explained if you need the fayth to do so. The ruins at the end are of the REAL Zanarkand. The dream Zanarkand was destroyed but is likely just put up again. After all Tidus' mind goes there to meet Bahamut's fayth. Tidus and the rest exist as a memory of real people. This dream started shortly after the original Zanarkand's destruction about 1000 years ago. Notice how Tidus never questions him being 1000 years old? They don't realize it. Maybe that's way the term "dream" is used.

- How did Auron know how to get to Dream Zanarkand? This implies it's a physical location on the map, but if anyone from the real world can just walk up and go there then how come no one else has ever found it? And how come no one aside from Jecht and Tidus has ever left?

Because of Jecht. Jecht was really the only one (un)lucky enough to get booted off Dream Zanarkand. Tidus was on purpose. Jecht went for him. Auron got there on purpose to protect Tidus. Going there might require help from the fayth / SIN or being an unsent.

- Speaking of Auron, it sure is convenient that there's some rule about how not ALL Unsent turn into fiends, only some of them for whatever reason. If an Unsent can just live their life as a normal human after death then why would they ever "resent the living"?

They can only if the cling to life & aren't envyous of the living. The only unsent we know of are Yevon-sheeple & Auron. Notice how Auron after being unsent looks 50+ even though he is in his 30s? He also can't use his left arm that much.

- What's even the point of Seymour's marriage plot? He obviously doesn't have Spira's best interests in mind like he claims, but otherwise there's no real reason to marry Yuna other than to get back at her and Tidus I guess, but he was trying to marry her before they'd even done anything to him. I guess she is pretty cute, but that's hardly a good motivation for your main antagonist.

Racismn. No really. Guado are hated and also exclude themselves willingly. This doesn't help Seymour in his pursuit of more power and influence. A marriage with famous Braska daughter and nice Yuna would. If the gentle Yuna can see the good in him will you too?

- If Yu Yevon possesses the Final Aeon whenever it kills Sin before it turns into the new Sin then why doesn't he just remain in control of Sin at all times? That would have saved him a lot of trouble when Sin was actively helping the people trying to put a stop to his plans. I guess he's not omniscient, but he should at least be aware of Sin's whereabouts and movements - in fact since the whole point of Sin was to perserve Dream Zanarkand then it seems pretty unnatural that he wouldn't get pissed about Jecht destroying it as Sin.

Yes the fake god that is worshipped by crazy people is not omnipotent. It was explained that it takes time for Yu Yevon's control to work. That's how the calm is made. Dream Zanarkand was remade. It's a summon. If Ifritt dies once it can be summoned again. Same for the city unless of course the dreams would end. I don't know why you think that the whole point of SIN would be to preserve Dream Zanarkand. Yu Yevon can still kill in order for him to be seen as a god. Why attack Kilika if you just want to preserve a city?


Everything explainable without faults imho. Like Dynamis, hence why i never said that this part of the lore has a logical error. Please explain how the Elpis time travel makes sense. After all our intervention didn't cause anything, right? So why was the timeline Graha is from not destroyed by Meteion?

[Absimiliard]

Please explain how the Elpis time travel makes sense. After all our intervention didn't cause anything, right? So why was the timeline Graha is from not destroyed by Meteion?

The WoL's intervention very much did have an effect. It's part of the causal loop. Elpis is set at a point in the timeline long before the 8UC (which I'll note is in fact the original timeline) and splinter (in which the game is presently set) divided. E.g. the WoL from the splinter going back to Elpis and maintaining the casual loop will keep the 8UC timeline going as well. Think of the 8UC and tangential timelines as being like two branches extending from the same tree limb.

As for "current" events: Zodiark isn't dead in the 8UC, which means modern Meteion is not yet a threat to that world.

Game's got plenty of plot holes, but I wouldn't count those among them. I do, however, believe the use of a causal loop wasn't the best decision.

[BRVV]

The WoL's intervention very much did have an effect. It's part of the causal loop. Elpis is set at a point in the timeline long before the 8UC (which I'll note is in fact the original timeline) and splinter (in which the game is presently set) divided. E.g. the WoL from the splinter going back to Elpis and maintaining the casual loop will keep the 8UC timeline going as well. Think of the 8UC and tangential timelines as being like two branches extending from the same tree limb.

As for "current" events: Zodiark isn't dead in the 8UC, which means modern Meteion is not yet a threat to that world.

Game's got plenty of plot holes, but I wouldn't count those among them. I do, however, believe the use of a causal loop wasn't the best decision.

Yeah that seems to be the only way it all makes some sense... with terrible implications. Weren't we told again and again that we CANT change anything? Guess they meant it in "it's already part of the timeline, bro". So we have 2 kinds of time travel. The Graha one that splits the timeline and the non-splitting one. The method could be the same. As you laid out, if i understand correctly, it depens on wether you go to a time before the shards were created or after. Why is this all bad, though? Well for one we have not been told if we could just travel again and there lies the problem.

Let's assume a new enemy appears. One who didn't exist before the split. Perfect! We can travel back and stop or change everything! Maybe he will never be born! But what if that being did exist in the united original. Well boys, girls & everybody else... let's travel to where the world was one and just vibe. Do whatever you feel like. Set something on fire idk. Or just harass everyone to tell you how to stop new evil dude. After all we CANT change the original timeline, right?

But i have to admit: it does make sense. I wouldn't want to see it because i thought the time travels were identical.