Suggestion for Samurai

[Geryth]

People really underestimate SAM's stun and the secured kills it provides

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

People really underestimate SAM's stun and the secured kills it provides

They are a pseudo tank with their kit and the sooner Samurai players learn to use their stun and bind correctly the better.

[RileyNoxus]

Look if you want to play a pseudo tank you are better off going with a drg or monk. Drg has a 50% damage reduction for 10secs and a 12k life steal. Monk has 16k worth of shields in thunder clap and riddle of earth can heal you for 4k plus 50% of all damage taken over 10 secs. Sam has a 25% damage reduction for 5 secs and the damage buff only applies if they hit you and lasts 3 secs and your last skill on your combo does 100% of damage done as a life steal, which will not help you 9 times out of 10 if you are being focused in any meaningful way, maybe as a way to off set cleave damage at most.
If we still had the 50% chiten yeah maybe we could do it. But with such a nerf we either need to do more damage or get rid of casts for the skills since they don't hit hard enough to warrant a cast time on a melee job (mind you sam cast times are only 0.14 secs faster then a black mage cast)
And yes I have taken Sam to crystal every season including this one, I prefer sam since I play it in pve as well but the other jobs are just better in every way and I can play them just as well.
If sure 50% is a bit much I kinda just was thinking about Fire Resonance when i wrote the original post thats pretty much it.

[Geryth]

Look if you want to play a pseudo tank you are better off going with a drg

No. DRG is tanky (maybe tankier than it should be) but it in no way plays like a tank. Dragoon has zero support, zero CC, zero peel. It's a pure damage class with good mobility and that's it.

Monk is slightly a bruiser pseudo tank class that can push enemies away, shield teammates, and charge to both enemies and party members. Peeling for and supporting teammates is something it can do.

SAM has a stun that is huge utility that DRG just doesn't have, and is more powerful than the utility of Monk's kit. Stun denies recuperate and guard or baits purify, but most of the time a well placed stun is just a secured kill since the sustain of PvP has been moved to each individual player responsible for their own health pool. No sustain = dead. Crowd control is king in Crystaline Conflict and the reason DRG performs well without one is because it does insane damage, is insanely mobile, and is insanely tanky, but the reason it's just not blatantly OP is because it doesn't have a stun. SAM is just going to do less damage because of that stun, and that's correct design imo.

[RileyNoxus]

No. DRG is tanky (maybe tankier than it should be) but it in no way plays like a tank. Dragoon has zero support, zero CC, zero peel. It's a pure damage class with good mobility and that's it.

Monk is slightly a bruiser pseudo tank class that can push enemies away, shield teammates, and charge to both enemies and party members. Peeling for and supporting teammates is something it can do.

SAM has a stun that is huge utility that DRG just doesn't have, and is more powerful than the utility of Monk's kit. Stun denies recuperate and guard or baits purify, but most of the time a well placed stun is just a secured kill since the sustain of PvP has been moved to each individual player responsible for their own health pool. No sustain = dead. Crowd control is king in Crystaline Conflict and the reason DRG performs well without one is because it does insane damage, is insanely mobile, and is insanely tanky, but the reason it's just not blatantly OP is because it doesn't have a stun. SAM is just going to do less damage because of that stun, and that's correct design imo.

Okay if a Sam and a drg are on the same team who do you kill first?

[Geryth]

Okay if a Sam and a drg are on the same team who do you kill first?

If we're talking about first engagement, usually neither. After first engagement what matters a whole hell of a lot more than job is LB progress, mana, positioning, guard on CD etc. But, in general, I'd probably target DRG since it has more damage and team fight swing potential (in the extreme unlikelihood that the decision between the two is arbitrary given all variables in any moment in any game).

[ShanaShirayuki]

.All in all, while SAM isn't "perfect" by any means, it is a healthy all-rounder. It has moderate damage, defensives and access to CC abilities, making him an excellent team fight initiator.

If you're initiating on SAM you're either the sole melee and / or the enemy team doesn't have a WHM, BRD, or RDM. As a SAM you want to go in after the fight has been started and play disruption / skirmish with your binds and Mineuchi; then drop tons of aoe damage with Namikiri and Mangetsu. Rinse, repeat. Initiating on SAM in high Crystal is generally not smart.

They are a pseudo tank with their kit and the sooner Samurai players learn to use their stun and bind correctly the better.

Compared to the likes of DRG and RPR, they are not a pseudo tank. SAM is an all in melee that has no way to escape outside of poor enemy positioning and a kit then relies on said enemy positioning. But I will agree with you on many players not understanding how SAM's kit works, a few of which are in this thread.

No. DRG is tanky (maybe tankier than it should be) but it in no way plays like a tank. Dragoon has zero support, zero CC, zero peel. It's a pure damage class with good mobility and that's it.
Crowd control is king in Crystaline Conflict and the reason DRG performs well without one is because it does insane damage, is insanely mobile, and is insanely tanky, but the reason it's just not blatantly OP is because it doesn't have a stun. SAM is just going to do less damage because of that stun, and that's correct design imo.

You mention that DRG does not play like a tank (while mentioning it's 'insanely tanky') but its entire kit allows it to play like one if need be. An AoE damage reduction every 25 seconds without relying on the enemy to hit you and a LB that allows you to be undamaged for 5 seconds. Combine those with Guard and you have a good point staller during OT. As I mentioned to Reinhardt, SAM does not have a kit suited for prolonged and sustained fights. It wants to dash in, disrupt, deal tons of AoE damage, and get out.

Top 100 SAM btw. Started CC near the tail-end of S1 and the only class I play in PvP.

[Geryth]

You mention that DRG does not play like a tank (while mentioning it's 'insanely tanky') but its entire kit allows it to play like one if need be.

No, having lots of HP and a mitigation ability that is offset by a de-mitigation ability (that you're ideally using on CD) doesn't mean you "play like a tank". You aren't peeling and yanking enemies at you for a party member who's being focused. You aren't stunning and setting up kills. You aren't shielding teammates. You aren't disrupting spell casts. You run around and hit stuff. That's literally all DRG can do. DRG's kit in no way allows it to "play like a tank". Tank in PvP means a hell of a lot more than just soaking damage.

[RileyNoxus]

No, having lots of HP and a mitigation ability that is offset by a de-mitigation ability (that you're ideally using on CD) doesn't mean you "play like a tank". You aren't peeling and yanking enemies at you for a party member who's being focused. You aren't stunning and setting up kills. You aren't shielding teammates. You aren't disrupting spell casts. You run around and hit stuff. That's literally all DRG can do. DRG's kit in no way allows it to "play like a tank". Tank in PvP means a hell of a lot more than just soaking damage.

So I'm going to assume you have alts right? Because you only have drg unlocked for melee and only warrior high enough to bring into pvp

[ShanaShirayuki]

No, having lots of HP and a mitigation ability that is offset by a de-mitigation ability (that you're ideally using on CD) doesn't mean you "play like a tank". You aren't peeling and yanking enemies at you for a party member who's being focused. You aren't stunning and setting up kills. You aren't shielding teammates. You aren't disrupting spell casts. You run around and hit stuff. That's literally all DRG can do. DRG's kit in no way allows it to "play like a tank". Tank in PvP means a hell of a lot more than just soaking damage.

Nice non-argument. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about; your lack of PvP experience matches your lack of reading comprehension.