Can we close the gap between Ranged/Melee and Casters before criterion dungeons?

[Keiisuke]

I like the fact that half of your team plays in melee range and half plays at range

I am playing a ranged DPS job, and to be honest, I spend most of my time sticking with everyone else behind the boss to get every heal, shield and buff that I can possibly get to survive the next mech.
I wish I could tell you that I can live my best life running at every corner of the boss arena, but in reality If I do that my healer will get mad and kick me out of the party.

Right now, I don't feel any difference between me and a melee DPS, since we have gigantic hitboxes one of the biggest advantages that the role had has been taken away.

[Fendred]

For those who missed the last live letter, there will be two difficulties of the Criterion dungeon, normal and Savage.

This is the info they gave for Savage:


Note in particular there are time limits to kill things, meaning DPS will matter a great deal for smooth clears

This is from Balance, it's live translations of Yoshida's comments:


I reckon his comment that normal mode will be Savage difficulty might be hyperbole, but the Savage mode is certainly not going to be easy. Also, he mentions that gear from the raids will be important to clear, so it doesn't have its own progression system like PotD / HoH. So the balance we see in Savage will absolutely matter here.

If AoE opportunities are good then casters may get a look in, otherwise Melee/Melee or Melee/DNC are likely to be meta comps.

Personally, I would rather have Criterion dungeons be an alternative to savage content rather than a continuation of it. That would have catered to a lot more people. Not sure why they would want to cater to hardcore players when they already have ultimates.

Plus, it would make recruiting for savage easier: Release criterion dungeon a few weeks before savage tier to let players form 4 man groups. Then when the tier comes out recruitment involves pairing up your 4 man group with another 4 man group, which is a much less nuanced process than having to find 4 individual players.

[Supersnow845]

All DPS jobs should provide the same rdps, as rdps attributes the damage gain from a buff to the job that supplies it, rather than the job being buffed. As such, it doesn't matter whether you're a 'selfish' job or not, because your specific contribution to the team for being present is being evaluated. It all comes out in the wash.

It has to be rDPS=aDPS for selfish jobs otherwise it will unfairly balance selfish jobs

If you are in a party with a DNC RDM RPR BLM DRG AST and SCH and in this party the BLM and RDM are doing exactly the same damage then put the same BLM in a party consisting of a SAM MCH WHM SGE SMN and BLM then the BLM will do more damage because in the original example the BLM is having damage subtracted off it because it is getting buffed but is not buffing others, so when no buffs apply to it it would be too strong

[Dogempire]

I think that most players prefer to be at range if you give them that option and that's reflected as well in the job numbers if you remove the artificial 'physical/magical' ranged distinction. And as you noted, things naturally get dicey when you have more than two melee competing for space around the boss. I think that most groups would opt for either a 1/3 or 0/4 melee/ranged split if you gave them the option.

Right now a 2/2 split is enforced through rdps considerations alone. I agree that the rdps distinction shouldn't be there, but I also wouldn't want to see the standard shift towards predominantly ranged compositions. I like the fact that half of your team plays in melee range and half plays at range, even when you include supports into the mix. If they ever start releasing ranged tanks and melee healers, then that might be a different story.

Yea no, I've seen the most absolutely convoluted strats to give melee dps 1 or 2 more gcd's, there's no way melee won't be able to keep their uptime. Heck even if melee has to take a few GCD's to do a mechanic they'll still end up doing more damage.

[Ivtrix]

Where are we?

quite possibly the worst balance this game has ever seen, thats where we are

[CKNovel]

I think that most players prefer to be at range if you give them that option and that's reflected as well in the job numbers if you remove the artificial 'physical/magical' ranged distinction. And as you noted, things naturally get dicey when you have more than two melee competing for space around the boss. I think that most groups would opt for either a 1/3 or 0/4 melee/ranged split if you gave them the option.

Nope, everyone is behind the boss
The game basically forces anyone to play at close range because healers and mitigation have limited range.
Also since many mechanics needs you to be at close range to the boss in case said boss does a in/out mechanics, you're once again stuck to the boss hitbox regardless of your role.

Also takes in account mechanics like share and proteans, it's much better to stick to the boss.

4 ranged won't happen and we have the proof
During Shadowbringers, casters were at the top of foodchain. BLM and SMN were monsters, RDM was very good as well, it was better than melees in a certain encounter.
Melees couldn't even Feint magical raidwides.

Logically, most group would be 1 melee / 1 p.range / 2 casters, right?
Nope, most groups were going 2 melees/ 1 p.range / 1 caster.

Again, it's been said for years now:
Players rarely stick to meta, they often stick to their favorite jobs.
This tier was the exception that confirmed the rule, even then a lot of groups kept their off meta composition.

[Aikaal]

I would say that raid buffs will lose weight because you only have 4 players. I do think Bard will fall further behind. Now, Dancer is much more interesting because they give a massive buff to 1 DPS. Samurai + Dancer is definitely within possibility.

Also, how exactly is it timed? Do we have to clear trash? Because if there's a ton of AoE trash to deal, there are some jobs that are really good at dealing with those. Summoner is really great for those. If it's something like, "Clear the dungeon within 12 minutes" It's not a boss enrage but a dungeon timer.

In any case, we don't have sufficient information to start crying out about it. If we go pure meta, 15 jobs are getting removed out of 19 from the meta so.

[Mithron]

It's also important to note that when it comes to trash, how fast jobs can burst and reburst beyond the 2 minute window will matter, too. SMN excels at expert roulette because they can do massive AoE burst constantly with every single summon, far better than RDM or even BLM IMO.

We also don't know how much you'll heal between pulls, or even if you will at all. This will put more emphasis on PLD and WAR with better self healing tools than particularly DRK.

[Aikaal]

If this is anything similar to WoW where you need to clear trash, Warrior is likely to be really strong. I'll take an extra minute on bosses if it means it means saving 2 minutes on trash.

[Supersnow845]

If this is anything similar to WoW where you need to clear trash, Warrior is likely to be really strong. I'll take an extra minute on bosses if it means it means saving 2 minutes on trash.

I mean WAR isn’t strong on AOE damage it just has incredible sustain on trash, so unless you mean WAR sustain will be saving enough healing GCD’s to move the dial then I think you might have a slightly inflated idea of healing requirements