AST (and DRG) had their improvements pushed to 7.0 PLD are getting theirs in 6.3

[Absurdity]

I guess I do want to ask something here - on the topic of hyperbole - do you really press only one button?

I'm not talking GCDs. I'm talking buttons.

When I heal encounters, on WHM, the braindeadest of the braindead, the following are all buttons I hit frequently (and by "frequently" I mean "multiple times per minute" for buttons with no CD or "roughly on cooldown" for buttons with a cooldown):

Glare
Dia
Misery
Rapture
Solace

Presence of Mind
Divine Benison
Aquaveil
Assize
Asylum
Lucid Dreaming
Tetragrammaton

Do you seriously not hit those buttons? And note my definition of frequently. LESS frequently, but still used, also include Temperance, Liturgy of the Bell, Thin Air, Swiftcast, Raise, Plenary Indulgence, Medica 2, and occasionally Holy and rarely Cure 2, and really rarely, Cure 3. So I frequently hit 5 GCDs and 7 oGCDs, and less frequently hit 4 other GCDs much more situationally and 5 more oGCDs.

And this is on WHM.

Do you press those buttons? Sure. Is it even remotely comparable to the amount of times you spam 1? HAHAHA, no


Let me show you this, it is a random log I took from the publicly available site that shall not be named. It's a log for P6S, 4th percentile dps, 87th percentile healing, so a log where the WHM did a massive amount of healing and barely any dps.





I think this speaks for itself.

[Renathras]

I think this speaks for itself.

I think we...might be interpreting this differently?

The post of mine you quoted, I was pointing out one of the problems of this topic is the RAMPANT HYPERBOLE. People saying they just press 1 button for entire fights.

The image you linked shows that their most pressed button is less than half of their button presses. A bit less than 9 in 20, actually (43.99% < 45%, which would be 9 out of 20). Meaning they press other buttons as more than half of their button presses.

I don't DISagree that that's still a lot, and Glare 3 should be closer to 20-25% instead of 44%, but 44% is alsy <<< 99% or 100%. That's the hyperbole I was addressing. And yes, that image DOES speak for itself: Disproving the "All we do is spam one button" once and for all. Which was...kinda my point? o.O

EDIT:

Toxic snip

Dude, YOU are literally gaslighting people instead of making arguments and call other people toxic.

Seriously, I'm not trying to "I know you are but what am I?" here with you, but you're actually doing the thing you're accusing me of.

UNLIKE your accusation, I've been consistent about making arguments. And I even offered you an olive branch and YOU are the one being toxic and gaslighting by rejecting it so you can continue on your toxic rampage.

While saying I'm gaslighting and not making arguments, what are you doing? You're not making a single argument and you go into a gaslighting spree, calling me...let's see..."gaslighting", an "online abuser", who needs "self-improvement", sidelong saying I'm not a good/optimized player/lack skill, "prefer entitlement", LIE ABOUT MY ARGUMENT (I literally said MULTIPLE TIMES that I think healers SHOULD change and here you gaslight by saying my argument is I "don't want healers to change"? Like what in the ACTUAL hell? That's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I've said...), who thinks pressing more than 1 button is "too stressful" (when I've ACTIVELY argued for other buttons to press - seriously, did you even READ my posts before going on the warpath?? If you didn't, it would explain your lying and bad faith gaslighting...), trying to "make people engage in doublethink", engaging in an "abuse tactic", and who isn't "the nice guy" despite me trying to reach out to you in kindness.

You're not calling out an online abuser: You ARE the online abuser.

.

I think I'm just going to try to ignore you going forward because HOLY HELL you are a toxic, abusive personality.

[Supersnow845]

I think we...might be interpreting this differently?

The post of mine you quoted, I was pointing out one of the problems of this topic is the RAMPANT HYPERBOLE. People saying they just press 1 button for entire fights.

The image you linked shows that their most pressed button is less than half of their button presses. A bit less than 9 in 20, actually (43.99% < 45%, which would be 9 out of 20). Meaning they press other buttons as more than half of their button presses.

I don't DISagree that that's still a lot, and Glare 3 should be closer to 20-25% instead of 44%, but 44% is alsy <<< 99% or 100%. That's the hyperbole I was addressing. And yes, that image DOES speak for itself: Disproving the "All we do is spam one button" once and for all. Which was...kinda my point? o.O

https://imgur.com/a/A5R8H3k

Is this a better example, 99% uptime 78% of casts were broil the rest were either biolysis or energy drain with like 1 cast of ruin 2

[Absurdity]

https://imgur.com/a/A5R8H3k

Is this a better example, 99% uptime 78% of casts were broil the rest were either biolysis or energy drain with like 1 cast of ruin 2

You need to check the overall casts, not just the damage ones.


But even with the log I posted you need to keep in mind that it was about as unoptimized as you can get, multiple raises, Cure II/III and Medica II hardcasts, probably more than necessary even with the deaths. In any normal run that doesn't turn into chaos those would've been Glare as well.

[Supersnow845]

You need to check the overall casts, not just the damage ones.


But even with the log I posted you need to keep in mind that it was about as unoptimized as you can get, multiple raises, Cure II/III and Medica II hardcasts, probably more than necessary even with the deaths. In any normal run that doesn't turn into chaos those would've been Glare as well.

I only included damage because she never cast succor nor adlo, her damage casts=her total casts

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Funny how even when unoptimized more time are still spent on throwing that Glare about as much as a tank do their AAs.

[Rilifane]

If we're going by GCDs than I can guarantee you that even in the average normal raid run with a random healer, my GCDs will be 100% or very close to it spent on my dot & filler spell.

While it's true that we use other buttons to heal, tell any dps they'll only get 2 skills, one a 30s duration dot, to press constantly while the rest is oGCDs they have to keep on cooldown but pressing them will lose value over time as people get better gear and learn the fights.
Or tanks that all their combos and fancy GCDs go into the trash bin, they're left with one filler and one dot and simply have to use mit and a few damage oGCDs but, again, their oGCDs would lose value over time because of better gear and better overall execution of the mechanics.
They'll be happy.

That is the state of healers: GCDs are almost exclusively spend on dps and any oGCDs you use will become less valuable quite quickly.

In one of my latest reclears, I spend 207 of 331 total actions (including things like potion and sprint) on Broil IV. 19 on Biolysis. And I still had some chonky overheal on some skills and could easily just not press them and nothing of value would've been lost. At this stage, I press them more out of boredom and not because anyone actually needs them.

The first unavoidable raidwide in p6 happens after 1min followed by more nothing happening for another 90s.
Carby also has huge gaps between incoming damage. Tree even has a full 2min gap at one point.

[Supersnow845]

If we're going by GCDs than I can guarantee you that even in the average normal raid run with a random healer, my GCDs will be 100% or very close to it spent on my dot & filler spell.

While it's true that we use other buttons to heal, tell any dps they'll only get 2 skills, one a 30s duration dot, to press constantly while the rest is oGCDs they have to keep on cooldown but pressing them will lose value over time as people get better gear and learn the fights.
Or tanks that all their combos and fancy GCDs go into the trash bin, they're left with one filler and one dot and simply have to use mit and a few damage oGCDs but, again, their oGCDs would lose value over time because of better gear and better overall execution of the mechanics.
They'll be happy.

That is the state of healers: GCDs are almost exclusively spend on dps and any oGCDs you use will become less valuable quite quickly.

In one of my latest reclears, I spend 207 of 331 total actions (including things like potion and sprint) on Broil IV. 19 on Biolysis. And I still had some chonky overheal on some skills and could easily just not press them and nothing of value would've been lost. At this stage, I press them more out of boredom and not because anyone actually needs them.

The first unavoidable raidwide in p6 happens after 1min followed by more nothing happening for another 90s.
Carby also has huge gaps between incoming damage. Tree even has a full 2min gap at one point.

Snake lady’s opening like 3 minutes is almost offensive to healers at this point, sure the tank DOT damage is a step in the right direction as healer kits are pretty poor oGCD wise for sustained high damage on 2 targets (CC/BJ say hi) but damn if this tier is going to scale terribly for AOE damage

[Semirhage]

I guess I do want to ask something here - on the topic of hyperbole - do you really press only one button?

I'm not talking GCDs. I'm talking buttons.

When I heal encounters, on WHM, the braindeadest of the braindead, the following are all buttons I hit frequently (and by "frequently" I mean "multiple times per minute" for buttons with no CD or "roughly on cooldown" for buttons with a cooldown):

Glare
Dia
Misery
Rapture
Solace

Presence of Mind
Divine Benison
Aquaveil
Assize
Asylum
Lucid Dreaming
Tetragrammaton

Do you seriously not hit those buttons? And note my definition of frequently. LESS frequently, but still used, also include Temperance, Liturgy of the Bell, Thin Air, Swiftcast, Raise, Plenary Indulgence, Medica 2, and occasionally Holy and rarely Cure 2, and really rarely, Cure 3. So I frequently hit 5 GCDs and 7 oGCDs, and less frequently hit 4 other GCDs much more situationally and 5 more oGCDs.

And this is on WHM.

On SCH and trying out AST, I seem to find myself hitting a lot more buttons because there are a lot more tools, oGCD weaves, and for AST, buffs.

I get you ARE spending "hundreds" of GCDs on Glare (and Dia), but you're also pressing a lot of other buttons in the interim, are you not? Or are you one of those bad healers that doesn't use oGCD healing tools? (That's sarcasm: I know you aren't one of those.)

So I see you read my post, and then immediately launched into an argument against what you wished I said: "All I do is press one single button". And then when you reached the end of that, you admitted that all I actually said was that I pressed it hundreds of times over and over and over and over again, which is boring. But hey, if you're so fixated on complaining about your opponents' hyperbole because you don't feel like actually engaging with their arguments, I'll bite. I cast Glare so many times in any given encounter that it feels like that's all I do. Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare until the word reaches semantic satiation and it doesn't feel like more than a meaningless grunted syllable.

You can argue they're "boring", but "boring" is a subjective term, not an objective one. I find DPS rotations either boring, annoying, or both. I can't say I've seen a DPS rotation I would describe as "exciting".

I do agree on the ability to rescue getting narrow in harder content, though.

You say more Glare is bad game design, but what would YOU say is "good" game design? More DPS button presses? On a HEALER? Many would say that, in fact, would be the bad game design.

I have made peace with the fact that I will never agree with Sylphies on this nonsense. This is Healers Should Heal Only in one of its various evening gowns. Oh no, anything but kit interactivity. The healer role would be rent asunder if poor healers had to do any thinking beyond pressing Glare a million times and farting out an oGCD heal once in a while. No engagement in MY role, that sounds like you're a dirty infiltrator DPS main trying to do DAMAGE on my precious kawaii princess healer role.

Healers are multitasker support classes in practically every RPG that's ever existed. Characters with healing abilities often use them sparingly and thoughtfully. They buff. They debuff. They spend most of their time doing damage. This is true of many, many, many RPGs. This dogged insistence that healers should clutch their ball gowns and faint in horror at the idea of doing anything beyond spamming Cure is....not the RPGs I'm familiar with.

That right there? ^ That was a little hyperbole. And I'm certain you're going to complain about any light exaggerations in it instead of actually addressing the point.

Pressing one button hundreds of times, back to back, over and over and over again in an encounter is, with the exception of a hypothetical situation where you just stand in place picking your nose, perhaps the closest thing to -objectively- boring as you can get. It's a total snore. I was tired of my main job being pushed and pushed and pushed in that direction. I argued against it. I'm now out of the healing role for anything but leveling to max this expansion, because the entire role was pushed into being this boring as of Shadowbringers. It's unengaging. The skill ceiling is unfun. I play healers in a large majority of games I've tried, and as of Endwalker FF14 has managed to present the least engaging, the least entertaining, and the most superfluous of the healers I have ever seen designed. It takes a REALLY badly designed healer to get me to toss my staff out. FF14 managed to do it.

I cannot imagine how anyone finds Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare to be good game design. Fill a board with other MMO names. Close your eyes and throw a dart. Chances are you'll hit one with healers designed like their players have more than two neurons firing at any given time.

[ty_taurus]

Snip

You know, the forums are, by in large, a place where you either preach to the choir or yell at brick wall in almost every instance of interaction, but its moments like these that remind me why I like coming back.