What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

Seems like Tesleen, the people at Radz-at-Han, the people at the Crystarium, Garleans and all the people that turned into blasphemies should learn how to forge ahead.

But in seriousness: a bunch of nobody no-name NPCs were killed off. Who exactly were these people? I don't know any of them. Makes it hard to feel sympathetic to blank faces and no-names and things you only knew for 0.2 seconds. While the scions, and all of their allies (probably even including all the no-name Grand Company soldiers. Like really, did even a single GC soldier bite the dust?), all miraculously come out of the biggest, most scariest, most dangerous, most despairiest, most muchsaddiest expansion like literally nothing happened. What even was the point of this expansion when nothing of actual substance happens to the main protagonist cast or even the side protagonist cast? Arenvald you say? That happened in Shadowbringers not Endwalker.

Yep. It's this particular trope at play:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedShirt

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect at least one major protagonist to die during each new expansion. Such a death should be well written, of course, though this is an MMO - it has ongoing development planned for another ten years. They can introduce new characters to replace those that perish in a way that feels natural.

[Ameela]

Seems like Tesleen, the people at Radz-at-Han, the people at the Crystarium, Garleans and all the people that turned into blasphemies should learn how to forge ahead.

But in seriousness: a bunch of nobody no-name NPCs were killed off. Who exactly were these people? I don't know any of them. Makes it hard to feel sympathetic to blank faces and no-names and things you only knew for 0.2 seconds. While the scions, and all of their allies (probably even including all the no-name Grand Company soldiers. Like really, did even a single GC soldier bite the dust?), all miraculously come out of the biggest, most scariest, most dangerous, most despairiest, most muchsaddiest expansion like literally nothing happened. What even was the point of this expansion when nothing of actual substance happens to the main protagonist cast or even the side protagonist cast? Arenvald you say? That happened in Shadowbringers not Endwalker.

The point isn't that you're meant to feel sad about the no-names that got killed, since obviously we'd never gotten much time with them with the exception of the satrap, but how it affects the Scions and their outlook.
Plus this logic can easily be turned on its head too, am I really supposed to feel sorry for the noname Ancients that died? Or even named antagonists like Nabriales and Mitron who are almost cartoonishly villainous?
And I get your frustrations with the Scions all coming out of Endwalker alive, but at the end of the day they are characters who are meant to mature and develop over time, so cutting that short would be wasteful.
Maybe with the exception of Haurchefant every single (main character) death in XIV has happened at the logical conclusion of said character's development, which in my opinion is the right way to do it.
I saw someone say something about "watching Alisaie get mauled for jumping into danger cause it's a character flaw of hers". Like what would that accomplish? Literally nothing aside from shock value. No one in the rest of the cast would learn anything from it. It's much more compelling to have Alisaie's rashness and stubborness be the cause of strife for someone else which she then has to live with and learn to overcome, as then she actually develops and learns her lesson.
I will not deny that Endwalker has a lot of missed opportunities and, to me, one of the biggest is how the Scions never get any reprecussions for kind of indirectly causing the apocalypse that almost gets Thavnair wiped off the map, which might have actually caused some strife within the group, but saying consequences are only when characters die is simply a juvenile way of thinking.
And before you ask, yes, the reason why villains get offed more than heroes is because villains don't tend to get the luxury of feeling remorseful for their actions or learning from them, on account of being like, evil and stuff.

[Midareyukki]

Yeah, the Scions don't fail nearly enough, how could I ever forget such moments of success like getting Tesleen killed, failing to stop Vauthry's Sin Eater attack on the Crystarium, failing to convince the Garleans that they wanted to help and having like half of them die as a result, failing to stop Fandaniel from causing the Final Days which got a bunch of people in Radz-at-Han and Garlemald killed as well as who knows how many more considering the amount of Blasphemies running rampant all over.
It really is just win after win for our heroes.

But...
- Tesleen's death was not the Scion's fault. They didn't "get" her killed. The only fault in there was Alisaie not being at an appropriate distance to gauge danger coming toward Tesleen. Though I guess you can say they "got" her killed by actually killing her in the dungeon? .w.
- Vauthry's attack on the Crystarium was a surprise attack and as powerful as the Scions are, they're not an army. And they were handling a fairly decent-sized chunk of their forces at once. Vauthry just overwhelmed them and everyone else.
- The Garlean thing I CAN sort of understand because they did fail to properly convey the message... but there's so much in there that kind of threw them for a loop. Rethoric is one thing, and they had the best one we have, Alphinaud. And Alphinaud and Alisaie had a good idea in loitering around and talking, befriending and helping Garlean NPCs while they were there. It's why it's such a tense moment even for Jullus when his general just declines the Scions so aggressively. Because they saw the writing on the wall, Quintus was just stubborn and really would rather off himself than admit his Garlean values were built on lies. It's not Alphinaud's fault for not causing a mutiny, when his goal was to try and get Quintus and his troops off their arse.
- As for the Final Days... There's just so much about them. First, we didn't know killing Zodiark would doom the world. We thought the exact opposite, and were even driven to it. The consequence? The Final Days are triggered over Thavnair and Garlemald, with minor effects on surrounding nations. We play through Vanaspati and it's a horrid mess indeed, whereas Garlemald tries to hold it together. But the effect of the Final Days in Thavnair get under control, and the same happens for Garlemald until we manage to beat Meteion and free the world.

What AwesomeJr44 was saying was that plans never go awry for the Scions. Sure, Vauthry still killed people, Tesleen was still lost, the Final Days still happened-ish. But we killed Vauthry in the end and brought prosperity to Norvrandt. Tesleen's camp now has hope in the future as we've found a cure. The Final Days ended virtually without any major hitch; no civilization was lost, barely an inconvenience in the long run.
Casualties WERE horrid, yeah... but those examples ended really well. The consequences were apparent: lives were lost. But there wasn't a major geopolitical loss in being involved. Garlemald is still around, even if fubar'd. Radz-at-Han only really lost Vanaspati, it's happily rebuilding. And all of Norvrandt is doing the same. Had we seen the end to Garlemald itself and its people being utterly razed beyond recovery. Had we seen Thavnair be torn apart to the point of utter disaster. Had we seen the First be consumed by Light with us unable to control ourselves without Ardbert-ex-Machina...
So yes. We've always won. Hitches along the way, for sure, let's not discredit loss of life... but in the end everything always worked out. It always feels like a victory, our success is a foregone conclusion.

Actually, Ameela, if you wanted a better example, imo there's Bozja. Sure, okay, it's not ALL the Scions, it's Scion-adjacent and it's optional content, not MSQ. But Bozja lost its primary symbols (the Blades and Queen Gunnhildr's own story was exposed). Worse still, the Blades died when we actually had a cure for Tempering at that time. You can only unlock Delubrum AFTER you've done that part of the MSQ, and they were only turned into the Trinities within the temple. No one saved Dabog. And Zadnor was a win, but it was phyrric and in the end we didn't accomplish much.
The reports suggest that while Bozja and Dalmasca's rebellions ended up working out, the 4th Legion is still there lurking in the shadows. Waiting to come back. AND they have the original Bozjan relics. And idk about you guys, but doesn't Gabranth's note kind of imply that he wanted Bajsaljen to win because he knew someone would rise up and make a constitution in the Garleans' image? It kind of feels like we fell into his hand... It doesn't "feel" like a victory.

[Kaonis]

My issue with this is that there were no lasting repercussions or long term effects of being depowered. It was resolved with essentially zero consequence to the main story, which makes it feel lackluster.

That whole section made me feel like someone said "Wouldn't this be cool if it happened?" everyone agreed, but not much thought was put into how it fits into the larger story or any sort of repercussions as a result of it.

Like Zenos just shows up in front of the Scions, smirks when he's revealed and just sort of yeets off. It was a really embarrassing conclusion that amounted to a waste of time in the grand scheme of things.

[AwesomeJr44]

Yeah, the Scions don't fail nearly enough, how could I ever forget such moments of success like getting Tesleen killed, failing to stop Vauthry's Sin Eater attack on the Crystarium, failing to convince the Garleans that they wanted to help and having like half of them die as a result, failing to stop Fandaniel from causing the Final Days which got a bunch of people in Radz-at-Han and Garlemald killed as well as who knows how many more considering the amount of Blasphemies running rampant all over.
It really is just win after win for our heroes.

Name how those failures impacted the Scions themselves. You can't because they only impacted background NPCs. The scions are fully geared out in that ilv 6300 plot armor and it's not fun to watch them anymore. Despite me hoping for the contrary, we all know that every single Scion involved with the void storyline is making it out unscathed. If one of our heroes actually has to deal with consequences in a meaningful way, (meaningful as in, an actual consequence, unlike having Yshtola able to ignore being blind) I'd be shocked but pleased that the writers had the guts to write good stories again, even if it makes the idiots on Twitter mad.

When I say I want to see the scions fail, I don't mean "I want to see them fail to save this random person". I mean I want to see them fail, suffer for it, and rise above that suffering. Recent storylines from this game have taken that middle step out, and it's really showing.

[KageTokage]

The latest short story just further stoked my desire to see what the political situation in southern Ilsabard is like, because on top of the Garleans being run out of Corvos, now the Garlean-governed provinces are believed to be trying to cede into independent nations, which is a particularly curious move considering it seems to have been their intention from the very start of the second civil war, given the lack of involvement the bulk of their legions had with securing the capital.

What they want for themselves and the other peoples of Ilsabard is something I'm really dying to know.

[Theodric]

I'd very much like to see at least one of the major provinces that prospered under the Garlean Empire grant their support to the Garleans that are left. Ideally, what the Garleans need is to be given a fertile, less inhospitable chunk of territory to call their own and do with as they see fit. It doesn't sit well with me to see them scatter to the four corners of Etheirys since that would be little more than a soft form of genocide.

I've been dabbling in TESO again lately and it's interesting how much more willing that game is to entertain different perspectives and grant the player character more freedom in how they choose to respond and react to situations.

I do think the lack of distinct factions and meaningful differences between playable races has led to this game becoming rather stale on many fronts. At least certain upcoming MMO's seem to be putting more of a focus on both elements.

[RukoBoshi]

I'd very much like to see at least one of the major provinces that prospered under the Garlean Empire grant their support to the Garleans that are left. Ideally, what the Garleans need is to be given a fertile, less inhospitable chunk of territory to call their own and do with as they see fit. It doesn't sit well with me to see them scatter to the four corners of Etheirys since that would be little more than a soft form of genocide.

I've been dabbling in TESO again lately and it's interesting how much more willing that game is to entertain different perspectives and grant the player character more freedom in how they choose to respond and react to situations.

I do think the lack of distinct factions and meaningful differences between playable races has led to this game becoming rather stale on many fronts. At least certain upcoming MMO's seem to be putting more of a focus on both elements.

I really hope we get to see provinces that are actually still in favor of the Empire. I just hope they don't end up as "the enemy", just another point of view.
I really think it could be interesting to travel with a imperial character, who get to see provinces that dislike the empire, but also some provinces that do like being under it.

As for the races, i totally agree. We have all these back stories about the origins and culture of each races, but Eorzea is such a blend of cultures that this differences doesn't shine.
When i see a Miqo'te, a elezen or hyur in Limsa Lominsa, they are pirate before all. They do not have an independent culture.

My wish would be to have an expansion or storyline focusing on the mistreatment of the Duskwight elezens by Gridania and the elementals.
In Gridania, we are in all manners siding with the persecutors and people committing the discrimination and it always felt weird or it get sidelined.

A duskwight "villain" would have every right to oppose Gridania.

[Lauront]

I agree, those would all be interesting points to pick up on, especially regarding the imperial provinces.

[Striker44]

Name how those failures impacted the Scions themselves. You can't because they only impacted background NPCs. The scions are fully geared out in that ilv 6300 plot armor and it's not fun to watch them anymore. Despite me hoping for the contrary, we all know that every single Scion involved with the void storyline is making it out unscathed. If one of our heroes actually has to deal with consequences in a meaningful way, (meaningful as in, an actual consequence, unlike having Yshtola able to ignore being blind) I'd be shocked but pleased that the writers had the guts to write good stories again, even if it makes the idiots on Twitter mad.

When I say I want to see the scions fail, I don't mean "I want to see them fail to save this random person". I mean I want to see them fail, suffer for it, and rise above that suffering. Recent storylines from this game have taken that middle step out, and it's really showing.

Where I take issue is the idea that someone has to die or suffer some major, permanent catastrophe in order for a story to be "good." Frankly, to me, that's simply and bluntly not true. There are a ton of stories I've thoroughly enjoyed where in the end there are "setbacks" for the protagonists along the way, but ultimately they come out on top as the clear victors. It doesn't take "guts" to kill someone off for the sake of killing someone off to make a story "good" in some person's mind, and immediately calling anyone who disagrees with you on that "idiots on Twitter" doesn't do anything to help that cause. When I play FFXIV, I'm playing a video game. I'm not looking to see Game of Thrones were my favorite characters are constantly getting offed and replaced. I'm looking to kick back, relax, enjoy a good story with my favorite team (i.e. the Scions), and I can still 100% experience moments of emotion, sadness, anger, etc. along the way even if I "know" everything will turn out all right in the end. I might even say it's that confidence that things will be okay that makes me so thoroughly get into and ultimately enjoy the rest. It's a video game. In the end, I want it to leave me feeling happy. Quite simple really.