What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

Whatever it is, hopefully it results in some actual lasting consequences for the protagonists and not just mostly things that come at the expense of the antagonists and large swathes of throwaway civilians.

I think back to Fandaniel's towers as an excellent example. If the game wants to preach at length about learning to move on then maybe it's time to lean into that. Have G'raha run through with an enemy's blade. Alisae torn apart by an oversized monster to punish her overconfidence. Just examples, though it's getting tiresome to be stuck with the same faces we've seen for almost a decade at this point. They're not afraid to kill off extremely popular characters such as Emet-Selch so there's really no reason for them to justify cladding the Scions in perpetual plot armour.

Unless, of course, they're straight up lying in interviews whenever they bring up that the story isn't a matter of 'good' or 'evil' but merely a matter of clashing perspectives?

One of the main reasons I bothered investing in FFXIV in the first place was due to how its worldbuilding and tone was serious and consistent back in the days of ARR and HW. The losses were balanced - but it no longer feels that way to me.

[Absimiliard]

It would be cool to have a rejoining with the 13th caused by the scions’ meddling and attempts to restore it, as unlikely as it is.

6.5 will probably be as significant as the final days.

I certainly would appreciate that turn of events. Make the "heroes" into the villains for once, with all the consequences that come with it.

[Ameela]

The main thing i was really upset about was the failed opportunity to use "you are not alone" or to be more precise the weak quest the implemented. FFIX You are not alone part of the story was an outstanding masterpiece in which the protagonist questions themselves and is supported and backed up by the party.

But the version we got was "walk up the shiny stairs"

That and Sad bird came out from nowhere and the fight was lame and thats coming from someone who has a meteion plush because i like her.

L

I know FFXIV is the fanservice game but I don't know why people keep insisting on stuff like this.
Why would you want something that not only has nothing to do with XIV to show up out of nowhere at the end but also is so intrinsically tied to another game that it would distract you from what you're playing to make you think of it as well as inherently cheapen the moment in said game since it's now also tied to an important part of XIV.
I'll be honest I've never really been a big fan of the fanservice in the MSQ. It's one thing to have a raid series like Crystal Tower or Omega since that's like side content so it's just stuff for fun, but stuff like every final boss except for Endsinger being from another Final Fantasy game, rather than getting a unique transformation Elidibus just turns into the Warrior of Light from FF1, Hien's theme has to be the same as Cyan's from FF6 even though they're not remotely the same character... it just takes me out of the game when this stuff happens and makes it feel like it can't stand on its own two legs. I've seen it defended as "it's a Final Fantasy game all of them do it!" but I think people overestimate just how much stuff actually carries over between these games. Usually it's nothing more than classes, magic spells and summons.

[Lauront]

It would be cool to have a rejoining with the 13th caused by the scions’ meddling and attempts to restore it, as unlikely as it is.

6.5 will probably be as significant as the final days.

Yeah, there's plenty they could do that'd be cool, much as was the case with SHB - so much potential that could be realised but likely won't be given their past track record. I believe Yoshi would much rather be working on this hypothetical MMO he's referenced a few times now, and who knows, perhaps 16 will be his proving ground for it - for the approach he would take with it? Hmm... best not to dose up on hopium. Either way, rather than get my hopes up that things will improve in a direction to my liking, I consider the rational course to simply observe what they do with each patch, and otherwise just keep it on the backburner.

[AwesomeJr44]

It would be cool to have a rejoining with the 13th caused by the scions’ meddling and attempts to restore it, as unlikely as it is. 6.5 will probably be as significant as the final days.

I certainly would appreciate that turn of events. Make the "heroes" into the villains for once, with all the consequences that come with it.

Agreed. I'd love to see some consequences for the characters. They currently feel too invincible to get invested into their stories. Have them fail so they can learn and succeed the next time. Their constant winning isn't exciting anymore. 6.0 failed to set any stakes and I'm hoping to see that change in the patch quests, although I'm not super hopeful. The Scions have flown far too close to the sun without any consequences, and it's time for them to get burned.

[Ameela]

Have them fail so they can learn and succeed the next time.

Yeah, the Scions don't fail nearly enough, how could I ever forget such moments of success like getting Tesleen killed, failing to stop Vauthry's Sin Eater attack on the Crystarium, failing to convince the Garleans that they wanted to help and having like half of them die as a result, failing to stop Fandaniel from causing the Final Days which got a bunch of people in Radz-at-Han and Garlemald killed as well as who knows how many more considering the amount of Blasphemies running rampant all over.
It really is just win after win for our heroes.

[Theodric]

Yeah, the Scions don't fail nearly enough, how could I ever forget such moments of success like getting Tesleen killed, failing to stop Vauthry's Sin Eater attack on the Crystarium, failing to convince the Garleans that they wanted to help and having like half of them die as a result, failing to stop Fandaniel from causing the Final Days which got a bunch of people in Radz-at-Han and Garlemald killed as well as who knows how many more considering the amount of Blasphemies running rampant all over.
It really is just win after win for our heroes.

They're all fairly minor consequences at best and most end up being little more than excuses to justify wiping out the Ancients in their entirety as well as most of the Garleans.

The desire is for losses that hit hard because they're meaningful losses - someone on the same level as Y'shtola, Alisae or Nanamo rather than just throwaway civilians or sympathetic antagonists.

If the game wants to preach at length about the need to 'move on' and 'forge ahead' then it's time for the same put its money where its mouth is and stop cladding the bulk of the cast in extensive, ridiculous levels of plot armour.

I'd like a healthy balance, not what we're getting at present where the more interesting elements of the setting are stripped away and the 'slice of life' characters are left getting almost everything that they desire.

[Ameela]

They're all fairly minor consequences at best and most end up being little more than excuses to justify wiping out the Ancients in their entirety as well as most of the Garleans.

The desire is for losses that hit hard because they're meaningful losses - someone on the same level as Y'shtola, Alisae or Nanamo rather than just throwaway civilians or sympathetic antagonists.

If the game wants to preach at length about the need to 'move on' and 'forge ahead' then it's time for the same put its money where its mouth is and stop cladding the bulk of the cast in extensive, ridiculous levels of plot armour.

I'd like a healthy balance, not what we're getting at present where the more interesting elements of the setting are stripped away and the 'slice of life' characters are left getting almost everything that they desire.

What are you talking about? The Scions are heroes, their job is to save as many people as possible, not kill the bad guys, therefore every loss of life regardless of who it is is a meaningful loss for them.
They did not go into Garlemald wanting to kill everyone on sight, otherwise why would have they even bothered with the diplomatic angle?
How can you even say they use villains' evil acts as an excuse to kill them and wipe them out when they have at multiple points tried to save outright villains like Zenos and Yotsuyu? Which, again, failure in saving them is a loss for the Scions.

[Theodric]

What are you talking about? The Scions are heroes, their job is to save as many people as possible, not kill the bad guys, therefore every loss of life regardless of who it is is a meaningful loss for them.
They did not go into Garlemald wanting to kill everyone on sight, otherwise why would have they even bothered with the diplomatic angle?
How can you even say they use villains' evil acts as an excuse to kill them and wipe them out when they have at multiple points tried to save outright villains like Zenos and Yotsuyu? Which, again, failure in saving them is a loss for the Scions.

I wouldn't expect anyone to read every single post in a thread as large as this, though a common point of discussion has been that most of what is passed off as 'consequences' of the City State leaders and Scions is generally stuff that impacts the antagonists and random civilians more than the self proclaimed heroes themselves.

Alphinaud and Alisae are sad about the two Garlean women who perished due to their stupidity. Though one can easily argue that not only should a pair of sixteen year old children have never been sent to the heart of a collapsed nation in the first place - and it would have been far harder hitting had Alphinaud and Alisae's stupidity resulted in the demise of Lucia and Maxima. Or even one of the twins themselves.

The self proclaimed heroes in this game don't resonate with me when nothing they have gone through is anywhere near as intense as what the antagonists and villains have endured. Thus I'd the writers to either dial back the amount of grisly punishment that they inflict on the antagonists or they could inject a little more balance when it comes to the losses that the protagonists endure.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Yeah, the Scions don't fail nearly enough, how could I ever forget such moments of success like getting Tesleen killed, failing to stop Vauthry's Sin Eater attack on the Crystarium, failing to convince the Garleans that they wanted to help and having like half of them die as a result, failing to stop Fandaniel from causing the Final Days which got a bunch of people in Radz-at-Han and Garlemald killed as well as who knows how many more considering the amount of Blasphemies running rampant all over.
It really is just win after win for our heroes.

Seems like Tesleen, the people at Radz-at-Han, the people at the Crystarium, Garleans and all the people that turned into blasphemies should learn how to forge ahead.

But in seriousness: a bunch of nobody no-name NPCs were killed off. Who exactly were these people? I don't know any of them. Makes it hard to feel sympathetic to blank faces and no-names and things you only knew for 0.2 seconds. While the scions, and all of their allies (probably even including all the no-name Grand Company soldiers. Like really, did even a single GC soldier bite the dust?), all miraculously come out of the biggest, most scariest, most dangerous, most despairiest, most muchsaddiest expansion like literally nothing happened. What even was the point of this expansion when nothing of actual substance happens to the main protagonist cast or even the side protagonist cast? Arenvald you say? That happened in Shadowbringers not Endwalker.