Endwalker MSQ gripe - *early spoilers*

[Theodric]

Maybe, but all it did, as our friend pointed out, was make me stop caring as well. Hell, it began with the cheesy heartstring attempt with the sisters.

This entire rhetoric is also super old. Would have been much more refreshing, innovative and gritty to go the opposite route imo.

Antagonize the fk out of them. Push their beliefs to the point of breaking, force them to submit, despair and lose all hope, see the lies and realize their whole culture was false, and at the last moment show unexpected mercy and aid. Rather than be a messiah, gain unwavering support through sheer Stockolm Syndrome

That'd just be weird, given that the entire reason Garlemald came to exist in the first place was due to their people being persecuted through no fault of their own due to their inability to wield aether and being forced to embrace a 'might makes right' approach to prevent their own extinction.

[Rhaggnos]

The whole mess was awkward because straight arrow commander Lucia allowed the twins to go off-mission to help some losers instead of staying on mission. All part of Fandangos master plan to slow us down just enough to charge up his lazer/space elevator cause sure why not. EW MSQ is so wacky.

Good point. I missed the part where suddenly the urgency to end the Teleforums was superseded by the will to save every random schmuck floating around the snowfields.

[Absimiliard]

Ah, one of these again. Let the man have his opinion. Not every hero is kind -- in fact, most of them are quite far from it. The WoL and co. have oceans of blood on their hands at this point anyway.

[RukoBoshi]

Good point. I missed the part where suddenly the urgency to end the Teleforums was superseded by the will to save every random schmuck floating around the snowfields.

Helping random schmuck is the core objective of our heroes. It's the reason why we fight the telephores in the first place.

We did the same thing during Shadowbringers when instead of chasing Vauthry, we helped the people of Eulmore.

[Iscah]

I understand all the reasoning, but I think it was a cheap way of trying to elicit emotion. Honestly, that one bit basically ruined the entire Garlean story for me because I just didn't care about them after that point. I have no sympathy for trying to use torture to keep someone in line, despite all their 'good' reasons.

Thinking it over, the scene probably could have worked out better if we had volunteered to be hostages, rather than being forced. It would probably be the best way to show that we were serious about not wanting to hurt them, especially when we've just had a harsh demonstration that no amount of friendly attitude or material aid will convince these people that we have honest intentions and don't have ulterior motives.

Regardless of who instigated it, submitting to be held hostage is probably the only way we can convince these people that we will not harm them. The last thing we want to do is to drive more refugees to flee their safe place, thinking they need to escape us.

Also, don't take this the wrong way but I don't think we can equate the threat of punishment in this hostage situation with outright torture. Assuming both sides in such a situation are being honest, they may not want to harm us but simply need that guarantee that we will not harm them – and if we are honest in claiming that we want to help, then they shouldn't need to use it at all. And if we do move to harm them, then we were their enemies from the beginning and the diplomatic approach is officially over.

[Hurlstone]

There are many times when something happens in a cut scene and I look at my WoL and think "Really? You just draw your weapon and then disarm just like that? You could have launched a Corps-a-corps and a Contre Sixte before they had the chance to yell "Thal's Balls!" at you.' However for this scene, it made sense not to attack. We where at a knife edge with these people, who we had traversed far and wide in an effort to save and help. Any hint of aggression on our part, even if we quickly disarmed and plead, would have instantly erased any chance we had with them. Remember what happened just before hand, with several citizens choosing death over any help from us savages? Plus, Alphinaud made it clear they we should not make a move and they would be alright. After all this time and how he has grown, I trust that guy in situations like this.

[Midareyukki]

There are many times when something happens in a cut scene and I look at my WoL and think "Really? You just draw your weapon and then disarm just like that? You could have launched a Corps-a-corps and a Contre Sixte before they had the chance to yell "Thal's Balls!" at you.' However for this scene, it made sense not to attack. We where at a knife edge with these people, who we had traversed far and wide in an effort to save and help. Any hint of aggression on our part, even if we quickly disarmed and plead, would have instantly erased any chance we had with them. Remember what happened just before hand, with several citizens choosing death over any help from us savages? Plus, Alphinaud made it clear they we should not make a move and they would be alright. After all this time and how he has grown, I trust that guy in situations like this.

Misija... Three times...

[RukoBoshi]

Misija... Three times...

I have a special place in my heart for that time we fought Gaius and let him go into his mecha armor for no reasons.
We literally just stand there while he leaves and then get in his death robot.

[Theodric]

I don't really have a problem with such moments since rarely do people want the reverse to occur. There's many more moments when the Warrior of Light or one of the Scions should just be executed because the opportunity presents itself - but that doesn't happen and people are fine with it. At least to a greater extent than they are whenever the same thing plays out with the antagonists.

[Rhaggnos]

They are already at their lowest point. They literally have no military power. PoW is a very different take. A PoW is surrounded by people who are not their kin and not in their home country, so the situation is entirely different.

This would be akin to say, WWII, when the other countries lost their military power after the war devastation but are still untrustworthy of Americans. If the Americans went to their home country to help, saw they were still distrustful and went "Oh look, they still don't trust us. We should beat the shit out of them to show we want to be helpful." I don't think that would have ended so well. I know for a fact if someone punched me in the face in my own home surrounded by my people and then ordered my submission and trust, I'd say heck no.

Wait, no xD

These are not civilians, they are military remnants. Holdouts. Are you implying that American forces in Berlin got rid of the last die-hard resistance by walking into bunkers and offering themselves as hostages?
I'm pretty sure the remaining nationalist forces were dragged out kicking and screaming, then made to stand trial, and only then came to realize the state of things.