Endwalker MSQ gripe - *early spoilers*

[Ameela]

I understand all the reasoning, but I think it was a cheap way of trying to elicit emotion. Honestly, that one bit basically ruined the entire Garlean story for me because I just didn't care about them after that point. I have no sympathy for trying to use torture to keep someone in line, despite all their 'good' reasons. If the shock collars weren't THAT bad, then there is no reason to put them on to keep the WoL in check. If the WoL is THAT much of a fucking monster, then trying to antagonize them isn't exactly a good idea either. the whole thing just doesn't work.

Also, all the conversations in that area annoyed me, I was forced to just respond with stupid remarks to idiotic statements such as "why don't you let us conquer you so we can all live in peace?", it was just a mess imo.

Well the point of that is to show how indoctrinated they are into their beliefs.
When the legatus gives his speech and Alphinaud just kinda stands down it's not because he has no retort for the bs he's spewing, it's cause he realizes these people are so deep down the rabbit hole of propaganda that trying to claim they're idiots for what they believe in would only make things worse. At that point the only way to prove them wrong is through actions, not words.

[Rhaggnos]

Well the point of that is to show how indoctrinated they are into their beliefs.
When the legatus gives his speech and Alphinaud just kinda stands down it's not because he has no retort for the bs he's spewing, it's cause he realizes these people are so deep down the rabbit hole of propaganda that trying to claim they're idiots for what they believe in would only make things worse. At that point the only way to prove them wrong is through actions, not words.

Maybe, but all it did, as our friend pointed out, was make me stop caring as well. Hell, it began with the cheesy heartstring attempt with the sisters.

This entire rhetoric is also super old. Would have been much more refreshing, innovative and gritty to go the opposite route imo.

Antagonize the fk out of them. Push their beliefs to the point of breaking, force them to submit, despair and lose all hope, see the lies and realize their whole culture was false, and at the last moment show unexpected mercy and aid. Rather than be a messiah, gain unwavering support through sheer Stockolm Syndrome

[Rhaggnos]

Maybe, but all it did, as our friend pointed out, was make me stop caring as well. Hell, it began with the cheesy heartstring attempt with the sisters.

This entire rhetoric is also super old. Would have been much more refreshing, innovative and gritty to go the opposite route imo.

Antagonize the fk out of them. Push their beliefs to the point of breaking, force them to submit, despair and lose all hope, see the lies and realize their whole culture was false, and at the last moment show unexpected mercy and aid. Rather than be a messiah, gain unwavering support through sheer Stockolm Syndrome

Tho that would be more Dark Knight than WoL.

Light Lady would prolly be a tad displeased.

Maybe drag em back as prisoners, make em watch the porxies save their people and then set them free, thus proving you meant no harm even tho you had absolute control over their fate and want nothing in return?

Something...

So far the story is so cheesy and predictable its basically a crystal ball made of cheddar...

[Kes13a]

thats kind of a polar opposite of the whole point of going there and what the intentions were.

[Kazemon15]

To be honest, but...if someone came up to me and beat the shit out of me and then turned around and said "Hey I'm here to help", I would tell them to GTFO and distrust them even more and would rather die than accept their false "help", because they didn't show any reason why I should trust them.

Same thing applies here. We're trying to gain their trust, not beat them into submission. Because that is what THEY did to us. An eye for an eye makes the entire world go blind, is the saying I believe.

[Rhaggnos]

thats kind of a polar opposite of the whole point of going there and what the intentions were.

To be honest, but...if someone came up to me and beat the shit out of me and then turned around and said "Hey I'm here to help", I would tell them to GTFO and distrust them even more and would rather die than accept their false "help", because they didn't show any reason why I should trust them.

Same thing applies here. We're trying to gain their trust, not beat them into submission. Because that is what THEY did to us. An eye for an eye makes the entire world go blind, is the saying I believe.

Not quite. Different method, equivalent results.

What bothers me in these scenarios is how shallow and fake they are. It only works in this high-fantasy setting where everything is needlessly poetic and virtuous. In a real military operation, the moment you pull something like that, you die.

Someone made a remark about current RL conflicts and how treating PoWs with kindness works. And it does. But notice you do that AFTER you subjugate and imprison them. THEN you show them human kindness. Otherwise the entire thing is suicidal and pointless.

The WoL dynamic changes things in the sense that he's a superhero of sorts, but otherwise his mates are not. They could indeed have died. And frankly with how boring their characters are I wish they did xD

[Kes13a]

Not quite. Different method, equivalent results.

What bothers me in these scenarios is how shallow and fake they are. It only works in this high-fantasy setting where everything is needlessly poetic and virtuous. In a real military operation, the moment you pull something like that, you die.

Someone made a remark about current RL conflicts and how treating PoWs with kindness works. And it does. But notice you do that AFTER you subjugate and imprison them. THEN you show them human kindness. Otherwise the entire thing is suicidal and pointless.

The WoL dynamic changes things in the sense that he's a superhero of sorts, but otherwise his mates are not. They could indeed have died. And frankly with how boring their characters are I wish they did xD

you are missing the fact that they were NOT PoW's.

as Kazemon said, beating the tar out of them just gets a subjugated force. and treating them nicely afterwards would not engender as much trust as just respecting them in the first place. violence is not always the answer.

[Espon]

Because nothing else shows you have good intentions than beating the crap out of them first because they gave you a hard time.

[Kazemon15]

Not quite. Different method, equivalent results.

What bothers me in these scenarios is how shallow and fake they are. It only works in this high-fantasy setting where everything is needlessly poetic and virtuous. In a real military operation, the moment you pull something like that, you die.

Someone made a remark about current RL conflicts and how treating PoWs with kindness works. And it does. But notice you do that AFTER you subjugate and imprison them. THEN you show them human kindness. Otherwise the entire thing is suicidal and pointless.

The WoL dynamic changes things in the sense that he's a superhero of sorts, but otherwise his mates are not. They could indeed have died. And frankly with how boring their characters are I wish they did xD

They are already at their lowest point. They literally have no military power. PoW is a very different take. A PoW is surrounded by people who are not their kin and not in their home country, so the situation is entirely different.

This would be akin to say, WWII, when the other countries lost their military power after the war devastation but are still untrustworthy of Americans. If the Americans went to their home country to help, saw they were still distrustful and went "Oh look, they still don't trust us. We should beat the shit out of them to show we want to be helpful." I don't think that would have ended so well. I know for a fact if someone punched me in the face in my own home surrounded by my people and then ordered my submission and trust, I'd say heck no.

[hobostew]

The whole mess was awkward because straight arrow commander Lucia allowed the twins to go off-mission to help some losers instead of staying on mission. All part of Fandangos master plan to slow us down just enough to charge up his lazer/space elevator cause sure why not. EW MSQ is so wacky.