What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

Riveting stuff...

The only thing I like about the fight, besides how comically over the top it is and the imff14andthisisdeep lines she has, are the dead pan lines delivered by Thancred and Y'shtola (she must be doing mental maths at this point to figure out to track which of her cat lives she's on.) Really seals the whole thing for me.

[aveyond-dreams]

The fight against the Endsinger was as bland as it was easy. Chaos with very little stakes or penalties for screwing up. Some final boss alright, one that insults FFIV.

[Midareyukki]

The fight against the Endsinger was as bland as it was easy. Chaos with very little stakes or penalties for screwing up. Some final boss alright, one that insults FFIV.

You can oneshot Yu Yevon. Orphan is weak to Death. Cid Aulstyne is a cakewalk you just melt. Meteion isn't the most egregious case.

I don't understand what you mean by "little stakes".
Do you mean the Final Days? Sure, that played out weaker than needed, but we did see the effects of it first-hand.
Do you mean her fight having no consequence should you fail? Because lorewise, if you had, the whole universe was screwed. And gameplaywise... I mean, it's an MMO, she's meant to be beatable. It's a foregone conclusion we'll win every time.

Plus, wasn't the point of her being "straightforward" mentioned by Zenos himself? "You've faced worse than letting something like 'despair' get in your way." Dread and terror are real, life is scary. But at that point Zenos was saying "this isn't the embodiment of hate, she's just an emo girl having a tantrum. I've caused dread and terror, and at some points, people stood up in defiance with hope in their eyes. You validated their hopes. What she does is cheap."

[aveyond-dreams]

You can oneshot Yu Yevon. Orphan is weak to Death. Cid Aulstyne is a cakewalk you just melt. Meteion isn't the most egregious case.

I don't understand what you mean by "little stakes".
Do you mean the Final Days? Sure, that played out weaker than needed, but we did see the effects of it first-hand.
Do you mean her fight having no consequence should you fail? Because lorewise, if you had, the whole universe was screwed. And gameplaywise... I mean, it's an MMO, she's meant to be beatable. It's a foregone conclusion we'll win every time.

Plus, wasn't the point of her being "straightforward" mentioned by Zenos himself? "You've faced worse than letting something like 'despair' get in your way." Dread and terror are real, life is scary. But at that point Zenos was saying "this isn't the embodiment of hate, she's just an emo girl having a tantrum. I've caused dread and terror, and at some points, people stood up in defiance with hope in their eyes. You validated their hopes. What she does is cheap."

Yu Yevon is indeed the final boss of FFX. Not like we killed our own Aeons just prior to facing him, which as a Summoner was quite a moment for me, or when we killed Jecht as Braska's Final Aeon in a fight that when I experienced it was quite difficult. Orphan may be weak to Death but with the spell having a 1% chance you still have to follow basic game mechanics of staggering him. I won't speak on Cid as I've not beaten FF Type-0 myself.

Nevertheless, tension, stress. These are things that are ok to have in a final boss fight. It is ok for them to be somewhat challenging and in this case required a group effort with everyone knowing their job and what they should be doing. By the time we fight her after the fakeout segment of Ultima Thule it basically washes away all the momentum that was built up on the Source from dealing with the Final Days, which was helped in part by the atrocious second visit to Labyrinthos.

[Theodric]

If my character's ego is going to be stroked, I'd prefer it to be earned through a genuine struggle - especially in regards to the final boss for a decade long arc. I don't play video games to self insert. If I want to feel good and accomplished, I go out and do something that actually contributes to the real world.

I'd point to some of the formidable enemies that exist in the likes of The Witcher 3. There's at least two major antagonists who cannot be beaten because they're simply too powerful for Geralt of Rivia to defeat. In one case he gets the choice to either walk away and led the antagonist get what he desires. Or he can confront the foe in question and escape after tricking him into honouring a deal. In the other case, it's a very powerful elder vampire who will simply kill Geralt if he chooses the wrong dialogue options. He's forced to use his wits and be persuasive.

There's a lot of ways in which FFXIV could set things up without resorting to awkward, childish flailing and ego stroking. It's not like the game lacks that already - it's everywhere. At no point is there any real doubt that the player character is going to lose. Even in seasonal events and job quests you know that if the player character is backing some struggling artist or apprentice mage or whatever then they're going to be carried to victory and succeed one way or another because the game seems to have an allergy to loss and lasting consequences these days.

I'd like a return to the ARR/HW style of storytelling with realistic, balanced stakes. Those of us who started back then are almost a decade over and I have no clue why the game isn't seeking to be a little more mature with its storytelling as a result.

[RyuDragnier]

The fight against the Endsinger was as bland as it was easy. Chaos with very little stakes or penalties for screwing up. Some final boss alright, one that insults FFIV.

Do EX, that is the fight you definitely want then.

[Kazhar]

Do EX, that is the fight you definitely want then.

This would have worked for any other final fight in the game, but Endsinger loses all the spectacle of its normal version in EX (no add phase, no tank LB, no fakeout, the great phase 2 music is unused.). It's just planet explosions on loop and one mechanic randomly stolen from E12S.
So IMO, it's even worse than normal.
Hades EX was infinitely cooler.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

The main thing i was really upset about was the failed opportunity to use "you are not alone" or to be more precise the weak quest the implemented. FFIX You are not alone part of the story was an outstanding masterpiece in which the protagonist questions themselves and is supported and backed up by the party.

But the version we got was "walk up the shiny stairs"

That and Sad bird came out from nowhere and the fight was lame and thats coming from someone who has a meteion plush because i like her.

L

[ReynTime]

I've seen people defend UT by saying "you don't need to be shocked by the fakeouts, because the WoL doesn't know they will come back, and this part is about how THE WOL feel, not the player".
But that argument doesn't work. WoL and the player are conceptually the same. It's your avatar. You can be one of those players who inserts their WoL canon as a made-up character by you rather than insert yourself into the WoL entirely, but then you have the other reason the argument fails. With the WoL's in-game acting being so... non existent, it's hard to take the "loneliness" seriously, and not everyone imagines their WoL as being as emotionally fragile as your WoL.
I mean even if you just take what the game tries to force on your character for granted, it looks stupid. You have the Scions like Alisaie trying to tell you how you're supposed to feel, but you character is just looking at them like: :|

Moreover I'm sick of them forcing the idea the WoL has to mourn and cry over every loss, be it a person, a machine or a building, when they've been through so much shit they should have been HARDENED by it. No Ishikawa, I don't think my WoL is inhuman but they're also not going to get emotional when one of their Island Sanctuary mammets breaks down, like I'm sure you'd expect them to.

Do EX, that is the fight you definitely want then.

LMAO
Endsinger EX is the worst extreme in XIV history. It's been made a mockery by the raiding community since day 1.

Much pretentiousness do I sense in this thread.

That's OK. Thanks for balancing it out with your absolutely nothing post.

[RyuDragnier]

LMAO
Endsinger EX is the worst extreme in XIV history. It's been made a mockery by the raiding community since day 1.

I know, but the map is technically phase 2 and fits what he wanted. Personally I'm not a fan of that EX.