What Zero Could've Been

[TheMightyMollusk]

Yes. They should have on-screen development that leads up to the strength they find instead of just starting out all cool and powerful. The lack of these arcs doesn't make for a compelling story, it's just putting a Mary Sue in front of my face and expecting me to like her based off how cool she looks. That isn't what stories should be doing.

So....women aren't allowed to already be strong if we don't see how they got strong? Should the same also apply to male characters? Should Estinien or Gosetsu or Lyon have been demure and soft-spoken until they got on screen? This is a terrible and rather insulting take.

[Vahlnir]

Yes. They should have on-screen development that leads up to the strength they find instead of just starting out all cool and powerful. The lack of these arcs doesn't make for a compelling story, it's just putting a Mary Sue in front of my face and expecting me to like her based off how cool she looks. That isn't what stories should be doing.

You are digging yourself a hole and I don't think you realize how deep you are yet. Put the shovel down, sir.

[aveyond-dreams]

You are digging yourself a hole and I don't think you realize how deep you are yet.

I'm sorry for pointing out the way that stories work in other media. Even the girls on Winx Club had character development that went along with their power upgrades and that was a show I watched as a kid.

[Kazemon15]

You already have your strong woman type with Y'shtola, why did Zero have to take after her in regards to being stoic and having a power level that isn't really built up to over the course of the story? Like Venat, it's just sort of "there." I do not appreciate you misrepresenting me this way. The Scions could use a woman on their side that is actually friendly and likeable, neither quality which I'd describe Y'shtola as.

Speak for yourself about Y'shtola. I happen to like her this way.

As for your misrepresentation...you already proved it with all your posts.

Men can't be kind or nurturing, you call them "boring" or "annoying" (G'raha, Thancred, ect) and expect men to be tough and "masculine."

Yet turn around and say women MUST be nurturing cuz cold and tough women are "boring." (Y'sthola, Zero, ect)

That is just a toxic masculinity and misogynistic "traditional" way of thinking...

Men can be kind and nurturing.

Women can be distant and cold.

People aren't black and white and fit into perfect little "traditional" boxes.

[RukoBoshi]

What Estinien went through throughout Heavensward was more than what Y'shtola underwent over the last 10 years in terms of character development and actual lessons learned. However with Y'shtola she just shows up, explains things, does forbidden magic, and not much else. She doesn't bring as much to the story as he did, and even Estinien's paused development is problematic for the game's future unless he begins to evolve enough to justify his continued presence.

Ongoing stories like this one should not have a main cast that's so stagnant.

I'm not talking about Y'shtola though, i'm talking about Zero. I fail to see how Zero couldn't go the same way Estinien did, considering they both start out similar.

[Midareyukki]

I'm sorry for pointing out the way that stories work in other media. Even the girls on Winx Club had character development that went along with their power upgrades and that was a show I watched as a kid.

No... I get what you're trying to say, that characters should start at their low point and work up. But these characters do, and not every character will start out weak. We know Zero's a strong individual, but she's "weaker" in other areas. She emphasizes only based on a Darwinian aspect that she has hints of that she disagrees. She is a Memoriate but is ranked rather low with the other demons. She wants to be left alone, unbothered by what happens to the world, but harbors people who are rather weak rather than becoming strong, so it's likely she hasn't realized the lengths of her hypocrisy.

She's not a Mary Sue just because she's capable and has powers. That's just an anime trope xD not everyone has to be a Muggle and work their way up, some people are allowed to have power but misuse it greatly and clash with their world.

I agree with the others. Take care not to sound sexist. The writing is what should be valued, not her gender.

I'm sorry for pointing out the way that stories work in other media. Even the girls on Winx Club had character development that went along with their power upgrades and that was a show I watched as a kid.

I didn't like Winx, I preferred W.I.T.C.H., and even there you had girls with ridiculous powers and potential, yet they had to go through character growth to learn how to harness it and apply it properly.

imo Zero's Elyon; she's mysterious and that's her allure. And she has great power on her hands, but she's too uncaring to realize the burden on her shoulders. That's part of her development. She isn't the perfect woman that will one-shot the Archfiends... that's us! What stands out with her is her ability to make sure they don't come back.

[RukoBoshi]

No... I get what you're trying to say, that characters should start at their low point and work up. But these characters do, and not every character will start out weak. We know Zero's a strong individual, but she's "weaker" in other areas. She emphasizes only based on a Darwinian aspect that she has hints of that she disagrees. She is a Memoriate but is ranked rather low with the other demons. She wants to be left alone, unbothered by what happens to the world, but harbors people who are rather weak rather than becoming strong, so it's likely she hasn't realized the lengths of her hypocrisy.

She's not a Mary Sue just because she's capable and has powers. That's just an anime trope xD not everyone has to be a Muggle and work their way up, some people are allowed to have power but misuse it greatly and clash with their world.

I agree with the others. Take care not to sound sexist. The writing is what should be valued, not her gender.

About Zero, i would also add that her world has been detroyed for 10 000 years and has turned into a giant battleground. She cannot die, and have to live by fighting, so of course such a character would be strong, that doesn't makes her a Mary Sue.
And despite her 10 000 years of experiences over us, she haven't showed any fit of strenght that are more impressive than Estinien or us, she only have an ability we do not.

[Payadopa]

Yes. They should have on-screen development that leads up to the strength they find instead of just starting out all cool and powerful. The lack of these arcs doesn't make for a compelling story, it's just putting a Mary Sue in front of my face and expecting me to like her based off how cool she looks. That isn't what stories should be doing.

We had one patch MSQ with her. Give it some time.
Also, let's be real here, you also would have complained if we would have met her and the Echo showed us, in excruciating detail, how her last few hundred years were. There is zero pleasing you. Yes, that pun was intended.

[aveyond-dreams]

We had one patch MSQ with her. Give it some time.
Also, let's be real here, you also would have complained if we would have met her and the Echo showed us, in excruciating detail, how her last few hundred years were. There is zero pleasing you. Yes, that pun was intended.

Except...that's not the case at all. I would've loved to see more of her backstory and how she grew into her powers. A before and after. Why would you assume I would automatically hate that when I said that what I want to see is the buildup to where characters are now? More showing, less telling. Please.

[RukoBoshi]

Except...that's not the case at all. I would've loved to see more of her backstory and how she grew into her powers. A before and after. Why would you assume I would automatically hate that when I said that what I want to see is the buildup to where characters are now? More showing, less telling. Please.

Then you should be happy because this is coming in the next patches, because the arc is still ongoing and they weren't going to cram everything in 6.2