RDM Balance Whack idea

[SaberMaxwell]

Raise utility should have always been a healer identity, not a dps one. RDM is a dps, not a healer. If we're gonna say reasons to pick then I picked Red Mage because the resource management of the mana bars, cooldown mamagement and making sure they don't clip because of poorly used swiftcasts, planning for high mobility phases, and the aspect of being a spellblade are why I picked it. These aspects, especially how the melee bursts work, set it apart from both its peers as BLM and SMN have things that set them apart from each other; even without raise its disingenuous to say they're homogenous.

I picked a caster DPS when I picked RDM. I didn't choose it to rp as a healer without the actual responsibilities of a healer.

[Lanvaldear]

My idea on a fun RDM buff was to make it have some sort of scaling auto attack damage. Maybe SP scaling based on an average between our white and black mana? We have a sword.. Why do Sages punches do more damage than our sword? Why do Arcanists book smacks do more damage than a *sword*?

[Midareyukki]

My idea on a fun RDM buff was to make it have some sort of scaling auto attack damage. Maybe SP scaling based on an average between our white and black mana? We have a sword.. Why do Sages punches do more damage than our sword? Why do Arcanists book smacks do more damage than a *sword*?

Don't stuff in Red Mage cancel autoattacking though? Regardless, your autoattacks are fine, they're not going to be the do-all-end-all that wins you the fight.

As for Summoner books inflicting more damage than a sword... uhh papercut? x:
ok but no really, at least Vercure heals for more than Physick xD

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

As for Summoner books inflicting more damage than a sword... uhh papercut? x:
ok but no really, at least Vercure heals for more than Physick xD

With all due respect sir… it just shows how it hurts when you’re smacked by knowledge ;_; …

…Jokes aside, after learning their lv85 trait, IIRC Physick now heals more than Vercures.

[Lanvaldear]

With all due respect sir… it just shows how it hurts when you’re smacked by knowledge ;_; …

Oh please. We all know Arcanist books are just picture books and they just point at what ever egi they want to summon.

[Deveryn]

Oh please. We all know Arcanist books are just picture books and they just point at what ever egi they want to summon.

Maybe yours is.

[Rithy255]

Raise utility should have always been a healer identity, not a dps one. RDM is a dps, not a healer. If we're gonna say reasons to pick then I picked Red Mage because the resource management of the mana bars, cooldown mamagement and making sure they don't clip because of poorly used swiftcasts, planning for high mobility phases, and the aspect of being a spellblade are why I picked it. These aspects, especially how the melee bursts work, set it apart from both its peers as BLM and SMN have things that set them apart from each other; even without raise its disingenuous to say they're homogenous.

I picked a caster DPS when I picked RDM. I didn't choose it to rp as a healer without the actual responsibilities of a healer.

If they function the same and bring the same utility/damage, It's pretty Homogenous at that point, I find melee DPS are because they're just different job flavours at this point, Likely tanks as well.
I mean sure people do pick it other then raise, but I don't get why we need to remove the raise aspect for such a non issue?

Would it matter if RDM and SMN as a bit behind Black Mage, as long as the enrage checks aren't hard? At that point I really don't think so, people are hard focusing on just making jobs have the same raw numbers like if RDM did a bit less the BLM it would make a difference?

Sure 10% is too much for a "raise tax" I agree with that, but at the same time why remove raise? Why not just buff red mages damage but also make sure it's not behind too much, at this point I just think people are upset that their job isn't doing the top damage, not that they just want a simple buff which makes more sense to argue.

I'm pretty sure this is why the devs changed the enrage, because they don't want a situation where people force you to a different job, I won't say I agree with the state of casters and phys ranged, but I can agree with the idea that damage checks should be there but not extremely punishing to the point of bringing a job with slightly worse DPS will hinder the team.

I guess I just like the idea of Casters having different niches, at this point I just don't really want to see every job be exactly the same. I don't think ver-raise is useless, frankly it's useful in a lot of situations, but I can see why RDM players are frustrated, I don't think RDM needs to do BLM damage in order for it to be "Viable". But Removing raise would help make balance easier so who knows it will be implemented if people complain about it more. It seems most changes is now to make things easier to balance, this is such a non issue it's not even about red mage being too low right now at this point, it's because Red mage doesn't do black mage damage it's because if it's not "my" job people will complain even if RDM was 1-2% off BLM and worked perfectly fine people would still complain.

[SaberMaxwell]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Homogeneity in function is not a problem as long as variety in form is achieved. Thats the only way you get "bring the player, not the job" as a reality.

Are SE successful in variety in form? Not always, but no caster plays like another. They don't focus on the same tools for movement, they don't approach group burst the same, and aside from knowing how to slidecast and its uses, they are very different.

This has been true since StB. Summoner's current predicament aside, its a strong record as far as casters are concerned.

[Rithy255]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Homogeneity in function is not a problem as long as variety in form is achieved. Thats the only way you get "bring the player, not the job" as a reality.

Are SE successful in variety in form? Not always, but no caster plays like another. They don't focus on the same tools for movement, they don't approach group burst the same, and aside from knowing how to slidecast and its uses, they are very different.

This has been true since StB. Summoner's current predicament aside, its a strong record as far as casters are concerned.

I don't get how raise is a issue if the gap was closer between rdm/smn and blm, I think we should be embracing support options such as battle raises on DPS, instead of hyper focusing on numbers when it doesn't matter, I do think red mage and summoner deserve to be buffed but I don't think we need to remove something that's always been apart from red mages identity.

Even if you argue that removing raise, wouldn't effect that much in variety, it would still water down the jobs enough to not really make them as fun or different enough (for me), This is why I really dislike Melee dps the only "support" option is bringing a raid buff.

I don't see the issue in a DPS raise, pretty much as long as they don't keep the gap between BLM and smn/rdm to far it's fine, I don't think it's a massive issue, I'm sure more people would complain about raise being removed from smn/rdm then more people will be happy with "slightly bigger numbers" to close that gap.

Yeah just seems like I view the game differently to you, I personally don't think we need every job to do the same damage if they're not planning on making dps checks insane, I do think RDM and casters in general shouldn't be so low compared to melee but I guess that's a different topic.

[SaberMaxwell]

Main issue is, and the reason a passive raise tax is a thing, is if RDM and BLM do comparable damage but RDM brings a safety net, there is no incentive to bring BLM. On the opposite end, you have no reason to bring Red Mage if its damage is so low that after learning the fight the guy you have playing it needs to swap to BLM and partially relearn the fight anyway.

The issue of giving DPS non-damage "support" comes multiple times. 1: this game is so focused on dps that even healers and tanks are hard focused on it. 2: if dps is balanced against support instead of other support options (ie: if RDM brought raise 1/min but BLM brought reraise 1/90sec) and that was the balance or choice? Sure that's a variety thats ok. But "9000 dps but no raise vs 8000 dps but raise" is a recipe for fracturing an entire role's balance.