Unpopular opinion on G'raha Tia (spoilers)

[Iyrnthota]

The only scions actively hyped about by people in my daily life are Ysh because cat girl waifu, G'raha because same reasons and Urianger because memes about how he talks. I don't really hear anyone lavishing them with praise because of how they were written or the impact they have on the story. It's usually just simping or memes.

Taking a look at Zenos, Fandaniel, Emet, Meteion, Hermes...the villains of the story, I see a lot more in reference to the opposite...how they were written & what impacts they had on the stories they were involved in. I mean, some people obviously simp for Emet but, you get my point.

Some of this is admittedly my own impressions of them, mixed in with what I've seen online, but they roughly line up with what I've seen others saying.

Urianger is the one here I see the most opposite for. I see a lot of people talking about his struggle with being the "duplicitous one", his dad arc in ShB with Ryne and Thancred, his dealing (or not) with the death of Moenbryda.
I think I mentioned earlier about G'raha fighting for countless years to help save multiple worlds, and finally succeeding and being able to reap his reward, travel the world, with friends and comrades by his side.
Y'shtola honestly is the one that catches the most flack, even casually, for being the least "developed" of the scions, but even her we've had a lot of insight into her childhood with Matoya that shows she was a somewhat lonely if gifted child who never really learned how to properly interact socially with others, resulting in her developing this sort of mask of aloofness. It's why I always pick the dialogue options to be playfully snarky with her, try and poke her out of that shell from time to time.

I think if you don't think people simp/meme for the villains in the same ways and volumes that people do for the scions, you're clearly in better twitter circles than I and I envy you greatly ;D

[TheSuperior]

Some of this is admittedly my own impressions of them, mixed in with what I've seen online, but they roughly line up with what I've seen others saying.

Urianger is the one here I see the most opposite for. I see a lot of people talking about his struggle with being the "duplicitous one", his dad arc in ShB with Ryne and Thancred, his dealing (or not) with the death of Moenbryda.
I think I mentioned earlier about G'raha fighting for countless years to help save multiple worlds, and finally succeeding and being able to reap his reward, travel the world, with friends and comrades by his side.
Y'shtola honestly is the one that catches the most flack, even casually, for being the least "developed" of the scions, but even her we've had a lot of insight into her childhood with Matoya that shows she was a somewhat lonely if gifted child who never really learned how to properly interact socially with others, resulting in her developing this sort of mask of aloofness. It's why I always pick the dialogue options to be playfully snarky with her, try and poke her out of that shell from time to time.

I think if you don't think people simp/meme for the villains in the same ways and volumes that people do for the scions, you're clearly in better twitter circles than I and I envy you greatly ;D

Ew twitter.

[Petite]

This game has very little without it's story.

[Terin]

I have no clue if this topic has been discussed before. My apologies in advance if it has.

I personally think G'raha's story should have ended atop the Crystal Tower without him returning to the Source.

It would have "cemented" him as a much more awe-inspiring character for his sacrifice (to me) and would have added even more emotional weight to 5.3's ending. Instead, we know in advance that he'll come back and we even get to meet him in the Source just 30 minutes after the fact.

I don't hate him. I think he's a fine addition to the Scions. But whenever I think of him now, I think of fanservice.

On a side note, I don't excuse Y'shtola's many fakeouts either. But plot-armor is a discussion for another thread.

Personally, I'm happy with G'raha. I'll admit, it feels like he lost a lot of that "wisdom and experience" he had in Shadowbringers, though.

I think having him die would've been a perfectly satisfying conclusion to his story, but I'm honestly happier we got him as a full-time ally. To me, he fills the void left by Minfillia, who was the only Scion who actually seemed FRIENDLY. Y'shtola has kind of been wearing me down a bit lately, I feel like she needs more "personality". Like maybe a quirky sense of humor, where she is kind of a "dork" in her own way.

[aveyond-dreams]

He's not wrong. Given the ever-increasing length between patches and a lack of long-lived battle content the story remained a main draw for people until recently when both 6.0 and 6.1 undermined the confidence some of us had in the writing direction. While 6.2 did not worsen things, it still has a long way to go before I ever trust them again like I did back in Heavensward and Shadowbringers.

Personally, I'm happy with G'raha. I'll admit, it feels like he lost a lot of that "wisdom and experience" he had in Shadowbringers, though.

I think having him die would've been a perfectly satisfying conclusion to his story, but I'm honestly happier we got him as a full-time ally. To me, he fills the void left by Minfillia, who was the only Scion who actually seemed FRIENDLY. Y'shtola has kind of been wearing me down a bit lately, I feel like she needs more "personality". Like maybe a quirky sense of humor, where she is kind of a "dork" in her own way.

Minfillia was little more than a lady who sat around, got kidnapped, and sent me on errands. That's not exactly what I call "friendly."

[Iscah]

G'raha going sparkly eyed at meeting one of our friends

I didn't get the impression he goes sparkly-eyed at meeting our friends, but at meeting famous historical figures – heroes whose valiant acts in the time of the Eighth Calamity are still told around the campfire two hundred years later. He would have soaked up those tales then, and now he's living among them.

Rather than everything revolving around us, it shows that he gets excited about other people too.

(Excited about things, as well – at one point in Ultima Thule you can possibly mention that you still have the Omega Jammer device and he geeks out about the mere prospect of seeing it in action. And he seems to understand mechanically how it works, too.)

[MagicPeanut]

snip

(I'll just be replying to what you said to me.) All your examples for why EW wasn't well-paced just don't make any sense to me. This was all just more lore and character development that was/is necessary for characters you spend so much time with. This expansion was very long and the examples you provided as not being balanced are so miniscule in the grand scheme of things, I'm honestly confused why it's such a problem? It's only a few scenes out of an at least 30 hour campaign. You clearly just don't like any of the Scions at all, which is probably the reason you didn't enjoy any of those scenes. I thought they were written very well and thoroughly enjoyed them.

About the characters agreeing with each other all the time, well they're friends and have been through a lot together and can be on the same page quite easily as a result. They understand each other (even our character in-universe understands their quirks) and have better teamwork to show for it. They're not "homogenized," but harmonious, and that's what I love about the Scions' relationship to one another. Look at other game series where characters have been together for many installments. (Kingdom Hearts comes to mind) They no longer have anything discordant within the group, since they've been together for so long. Instead, they have respect for each other. This is just a naturally occurring thing. Maybe a few disagreements would be nice here or there, but when we're talking the end of existence here, everyone's gotta be on the same page so they can get stuff done.

Also, I couldn't find anything online about the "fanservice" scenes costing extra resources? The rest of EW never suffered as a result of those scenes (heavier-toned cutscenes' animation, gameplay, level progression, etc.), so I have to ask where you got that information?

People really tend to rag on that G'raha burger cutscene, huh? It happens once and is never referred to again. I don't understand how this one scene somehow interfered with the overall plot. (Not to mention, it happens very early on in this over 30 hour story, to my recollection, so I care about this point even less.) Besides, G'raha was very helpful in EW. A few things that come to mind was his assistance in the Ilsabard Contingent (Particularly on the way to Camp Broken Glass for the first time), him saving Alisaie a la CGI Derplander style, and of course his sacrifice on Ultima Thule and his encouraging words right before. He also canonically fights in places like Zot (Even saved everyone from falling to their DEATHS), Babylon, Vanaspati, the Dead Ends, the Mothercrystal, and more recently in Alzadaal. This idea that he somehow doesn't do anything is simply not true.

Now, I really have no idea where you're getting the idea the EW MSQ is like Hildibrand quests. So, a deep story can't have slice-of-life or comedic elements without being compared to the more mature FF version equivalent of a 90's comedy cartoon? You lost me. I guess we can't laugh between stressful situations anymore. Cuz that's normal?

I vaguely remember the Sylph questline (For context, FFXIV is my first official MMO so I wasn't sure how these genre of games normally work) but I remember actually laughing at some of it. I was honestly pretty heartbroken to hear it was being removed. I understand it was trimmed for length, but in terms of player satisfaction, I liked it, so I guess that means I didn't find it distracting from the action, even as a new player to the genre. So, why would I mind if they did it again?

And about the Hildy relic weapons (Although, it seems more related to Godbert than Hildy, but I could be wrong), I also find it questionable to combine them, but for different reasons. I see the Hildibrand quests as a funny distraction for people who want to take a break and laugh without needing to really worry about gameplay. But combining it with a system that I find tedious and rarely follow to completion is quite odd. (The combo of a fun distraction with a system that takes long lengths of time and/or focus to complete, just clash.) I dislike the idea altogether, but we'll have to wait and see how it's truly going to be like. Also, if the questline being linked to the weapons bothers you, why can't you just....skip the cutscenes and just focus on the weapons? You don't seem to like the Hildibrand questlines anyway.

People in fandoms who really, REALLY, like certain characters, don't simply "move on." You carry those characters with you and even devote some creative time to them, like fanart, fanfictions, or even performing covers of characters' theme songs. (How one may feel about the content itself is irrelevant, I'm just giving examples.) I personally adore HxH and watched the 2011 anime several times. I was massively involved with the fandom, but when I left, I didn't just leave the franchise behind too. I still love the characters, music, and story to this day, even when I focus my time on other franchises and characters, like FFXIV and G'raha Tia.

For the record, I always thought it was heartwarming how some players came together to devote a shrine to Haurchefant at that fanfest. It was more than just a shrine, it was establishing a sort of camaraderie within the community. Landmarking an event we all shared in. How can anyone look at that and say it's "strange"? And why are you using that as a reason why, "these sort of people," or "fans," as I like to call them, should be somehow reigned in by the devs? The fans are just enjoying the game, they don't control what the devs are doing. (As an example, Emet-Selch's inclusion in EW wasn't based on his popularity, as mentioned here.)

I just think your way off the mark about the whole thing. I thought this expansion was very much full of thrills. It was an emotional rollercoaster and I had a blast from start to finish. It worked out so amazingly, I was sad when it came to an end! In my opinion, what the devs did worked. I of course had complaints in a few places in the plot, it wasn't perfect. But I still thought it was exceptionally well written. I even cried twice lol. There must be something the devs are doing right to have so many people subscribing to the game, and I believe this MSQ plot has a heck of a lot do with it.

[Petite]

He's not wrong. Given the ever-increasing length between patches and a lack of long-lived battle content the story remained a main draw for people until recently when both 6.0 and 6.1 undermined the confidence some of us had in the writing direction. While 6.2 did not worsen things, it still has a long way to go before I ever trust them again like I did back in Heavensward and Shadowbringers.

That's such a cynical thing to claim. There's objectively a ton of stuff to do. We can argue how deep or shallow each of them is, sure, but if the only thing you care for is the story then I feel sorry for you.

For my part, the MSQ is far from being my main draw. While not on ShB's level, I found EW' story satisfying and I'll give them some leeway with the current developing one as they're still putting its pieces into place.

[OhNooo]

Is there some reason why masculine type characters (excluding Thancred and even he is kinda not necessarily what I mean) are hardly ever given a spotlight in the game? Does Square just think we all want our men to look like teenagers forever or is facial hair really that hard to add to the game?

Because FFXIV is basically a shounen anime.

[Petite]

LianaThorne: "Is there some reason why masculine type characters (excluding Thancred and even he is kinda not necessarily what I mean) are hardly ever given a spotlight in the game?"

Because FFXIV is basically a shounen anime.

That's not the answer to their question. There's lots of burly side characters in anime, even in Final Fantasy (Barret).

The true answer to LianaThorne's question is that there's no reason.