Many Savage PFs are barring PLD and WAR, anyone know what's going on?

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Paladin at least has been getting consistent buffs quite a lot, warrior got one during 6.2 they're likely on the right track, I think with warrior especially they didn't wanna overtune it with the new crit changes, Paladin needs some general fundamental fixes ontop of outputting a lot more while warrior generally just needs more potency buffs. I don't think SE is intending for both jobs to be "low dps tanks" I do think they generally wanna push gnb and drk as the slightly higher ones this expansion but that's me doing some guess work (also warrior shouldn't be top dps in its current state, but should be way higher then it is now, way way way more closer it should hardly be a difference).

I think for the new dugeon system they have to consider some tank changes before 6.25 comes out, Warrior clearly is overtuned in dugeons while dark knight might suffer a bit from depending on the damage from pulls, They will all perform passable for bosses in the tanking department, We have no clue on enrage and how much you would need a tank that does more dps. Dugeon balancing (even when higher dugeon content is out) comes second to raids, but I do think their needs to be quite a big list of changes.

Sorry but the fact that tank balance was so good last expansion, current balance is unacceptable and no the paltry potency increase on PLDs Requiescat phase is not where it's needed, and it's nothing short of a HW 2.0 token buff, looks like they're doing something but actually doing nothing to actually address the issues.

As far as dungeon balancing, nah that should have absolutely 0 effect on how jobs are balanced. Sure WAR can be a powerhouse in dungeons via self sustain, but at no point should that penalise the job in the content that actually matters.

Criterion dungeons, we have to wait and see, I don't think personally, WAR will have that much of an advantage over the other tanks, sure it's self-sustain is strong, but I reckon we'll have to go with smaller trash pulls weakening Bloodwhetting strength by some degree.

Overall no job should be pushed as a dungeon job or a raid job, has never really been a thing in XIV and rather it never go that way. Again their own words, any job and any comp, can clear any content, means SE need to actually start doing more substantial adjustments to bring the weaker jobs up to an acceptable balance, so people can actually not feel like a detriment for play the jobs they love to play.

HW PLD existed once, it does not need to exist again.

[Rithy255]

Sorry but the fact that tank balance was so good last expansion, current balance is unacceptable and no the paltry potency increase on PLDs Requiescat phase is not where it's needed, and it's nothing short of a HW 2.0 token buff, looks like they're doing something but actually doing nothing to actually address the issues.

As far as dungeon balancing, nah that should have absolutely 0 effect on how jobs are balanced. Sure WAR can be a powerhouse in dungeons via self sustain, but at no point should that penalise the job in the content that actually matters.

Criterion dungeons, we have to wait and see, I don't think personally, WAR will have that much of an advantage over the other tanks, sure it's self-sustain is strong, but I reckon we'll have to go with smaller trash pulls weakening Bloodwhetting strength by some degree.

Overall no job should be pushed as a dungeon job or a raid job, has never really been a thing in XIV and rather it never go that way. Again their own words, any job and any comp, can clear any content, means SE need to actually start doing more substantial adjustments to bring the weaker jobs up to an acceptable balance, so people can actually not feel like a detriment for play the jobs they love to play.

HW PLD existed once, it does not need to exist again.

Oh for sure the changes aren't great, I do think its good people are being vocal, I do think they're trying to balance warrior/pld not to be dugeon tanks only inherit by how many buffs paladin got the recent change warrior got shows they do seem to want to balance the tanks, I don't think they're purposely making the damage that low was my main point. I think they're Trying of course they're failing I hate how Paladin is being treated as a Paladin main (Someone who really loves my job, right now i dont bother with triyng week 1, because I'm not a competent enough player but I'm aiming for the future where I do tackle harder fights week 1).

I disagree BW is way overtuned for trash pulls, if dugeons are now mattering and warrior becomes the only good choice depending on outgoing damage in large pulls It's realistic to that healers might struggle to heal dark knight, you could be right that pulls might be low, they might not matter as much but I'm assuming the pulls are going to be hitting harder then normal dungeons, I feel like healers might lose GCD AOE having a tank such as drk which would be a big DPS loss.

I will wait and see though you're right to say that we should wait, I shouldn't assume the worst outcome where Warrior becomes the only viable tank, but I really dislike how warrior is designed in trash pulls and the idea of it being even considered in harder content somewhat baffles me.

[Zarkovitch]

right pld and war are no bueno. Few weeks they are going be back

[Lilyth]

Good. Maybe then SE will give the underperforming tanks some much need attention.
MCH on the other hand is just a lost cause.

[Ayche]

They have like real 200 raw dps difference at this point.
How on earth can that be a dealbreaker, change in dps job can actually create fivefold bigger effect than changing your tanks.

[Rilifane]

They have like real 200 raw dps difference at this point.
How on earth can that be a dealbreaker, change in dps job can actually create fivefold bigger effect than changing your tanks.

It's a thread about tanks that's why it probably wasn't mentioned but don't think for second that dps slots don't get locked as well.
Most parties exclude WAR/ GNB for tanks, lock dps slots to double melee and exclude MCH/ RDM/ sometimes SMN.

It will change in a few weeks and the currently locked classes will be allowed to join again but for now PF is trying to minimize risks and I can't fault them for it. Wipe for hours to small mistakes like a single damage down, someone's pot not going off or someone not bringing their a-game just so you can play whichever comp you like or make sure you have a bit of wiggle room in an unpredictable environment and increase the chances of clearing?

[RyuDragnier]

Because they are behind enough on dps to legitimately be a detriment to the group.

All I read was "being used as scapegoats because you have bad players on DPS".

On a more serious note, I don't think the devs really expected PLD/WAR to be that far behind on DPS. Watch both of them get DPS buffs soon.

[Undeadfire]

On a more serious note, I don't think the devs really expected PLD/WAR to be that far behind on DPS. Watch both of them get DPS buffs soon.

Paladin needs a rotation work than a buff, you can buff it extra, GNB/DRK will still be picked for their insane synergy with raid buffs.

[Mortex]

They have like real 200 raw dps difference at this point.
How on earth can that be a dealbreaker, change in dps job can actually create fivefold bigger effect than changing your tanks.

The p8 s door boss dps check is around 61400 dps. With week 1 gear and items that is a pretty heavy dps check we’re 500 dps can make or break the run. Now think about it, how bad it is when you have 3-4 jobs that deal around 250-350 dps then there counter parts.

[Mortex]

All I read was "being used as scapegoats because you have bad players on DPS".

On a more serious note, I don't think the devs really expected PLD/WAR to be that far behind on DPS. Watch both of them get DPS buffs soon.

Or some statics wanna go double caster because they think even week 1 can be cleared with every comb like it was in Shadowbringer. Now you lose around 2000 dps if you go the worst of the worst jobs per role. It’s really fun to realize your job is so bad you sandbag the party.