The WOL and Mass Murder

[Alleo]

Fordola was not only in command but also did some bad things towards innocent people. Her group beat up those that could not pay, which we saw with our own eyes. She then did something really heinous by bascially shooting at her own soldiers/friends. Who knows what else she did in all those years.

Unlike her, many Garlean soldiers just did what they were told to do. We also have to remember that a lot of them were conscripts who might not even want to fight. We have heard what will happen to the families of such soldiers if they refused to take up arms.

So there is quite a difference between someone like Fordola who also took it out on civilian and the common soldier who might have just fought against other soldiers.

In the end Fordola only got the collar (thus a chance at life) because she was useful with her echo otherwise she would have been killed.

[Cleretic]

Fordola was not only in command but also did some bad things towards innocent people. Her group beat up those that could not pay, which we saw with our own eyes. She then did something really heinous by bascially shooting at her own soldiers/friends. Who knows what else she did in all those years.

Unlike her, many Garlean soldiers just did what they were told to do. We also have to remember that a lot of them were conscripts who might not even want to fight. We have heard what will happen to the families of such soldiers if they refused to take up arms.

So there is quite a difference between someone like Fordola who also took it out on civilian and the common soldier who might have just fought against other soldiers.

In the end Fordola only got the collar (thus a chance at life) because she was useful with her echo otherwise she would have been killed.

While largely true, Fordola also wasn't the top of any chain of command; she was making decisions of her own volition, but it's also entirely plausible to say that she didn't have the freedom to make better ones. Remember that she's serving under Zenos at that point, and Zenos kills his own soldiers for exhibiting whatever he calls 'cowardice'. She's DEFINITELY the hardest problem to solve in that theoretical war tribunal for that reason: she's definitely someone with agency in her decisions, but she's also simultaneously someone who was left with very few options for what to do with that agency.

And yeah, it's REALLY lucky for her that she happened to have an indispensable ability at the exact moment they needed it, which then created a situation that's considerably kinder to her odds. They needed to give her the chance to show that she was capable of doing better, not for her sake, but because she's someone that can stop existential threats. Which realistically isn't a situation that's much better than she was in under the Empire--it's still 'do what benefits us under penalty of death', it's just that this time the agency she's permitted is what's used to prove she's better than what she was thought to be, rather than under Zenos where only the most merciless and cruel options weren't punished.

[thegreatonemal]

Eh, in the heat of combat the finesse required to not kill is oft hard to muster properly. It's war, and in war bad shit happens. You ask me, you ought to ask yourself if these people deserve to be saved. Brainwashed or not, Garlean soldiers have nevertheless done some pretty heinous shit. They're no Emperor Solus, but they don't have to be. At best they're all mini-Fordolas. So, where's their bomb collars if I might ask? Are we to let these crime committers simply walk free? What happens to the Ala Mhigan fishwife who spots her husband's murderer happily traipsing the Quarter?

The Garlean soldiers that surrendered aren't being allowed into the city and will most likely be shipped back up north just as soon as things stabilize.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Frankly, I think that's bullsheiss and cannot get behind that rationale. Legally, as a soldier you have an obligation to follow orders.

Morally, as a person you have an obligation to disregard tyrannical orders. If you do not, you are the one who is lacking in morals not your superiors. Some things are worth dying, or being hated by your own family and friends for.

I'm sure the "heretics" of the Dragonsong would agree.

[EdwinLi]

Frankly, I think that's bullsheiss and cannot get behind that rationale. Legally, as a soldier you have an obligation to follow orders.

Morally, as a person you have an obligation to disregard tyrannical orders. If you do not, you are the one who is lacking in morals not your superiors. Some things are worth dying, or being hated by your own family and friends for.

I'm sure the "heretics" of the Dragonsong would agree.

You're ignoring the fact the garlean empire often aim at their families and friends first before killing the conscripted last. Not everyone has the belief that "Ok they are evil so I rather have my entire family, friends, and homeland get brutally killed first then myself instead of following them as a conscripted soldier" mind set you may have.

It was do what they so or everyone you love dies first then yourself last under the decree that they are rebels or be conscripted so their love onces remain unharmed even if they should die as conscripted soldiers following orders.

Many of them just wanted their loved ones to live under hope they may be spared having to follow the Garlean Empire's orders as conscripted soldiers or killed by them either through another country winning or the Garlean Empire winning even if they ended up being hated by both sides.

[KariTheFox]

Frankly, I think that's bullsheiss and cannot get behind that rationale. Legally, as a soldier you have an obligation to follow orders.

Morally, as a person you have an obligation to disregard tyrannical orders. If you do not, you are the one who is lacking in morals not your superiors. Some things are worth dying, or being hated by your own family and friends for.

I'm sure the "heretics" of the Dragonsong would agree.

What about the Garlean conscripts who were drafted from one province to fight in another, with the threat of their families back home being executed if they do not follow orders?

Do they have a moral obligation to disobey tyrannical orders, and in turn have thier families back home be killed, or they obliged to obey in order to protect thier families? There is no easy, "correct" answer. - Except that the Garlean War machine and its leaders are morally culpable for the suffering that it caused, not the average rank and file solider. (Most of the time, anyway. An individual solider COULD in fact commit horrific war crimes if they go above and beyond what they were ordered to do in terms of cruelty.)

As much as I would love a Garlean War Crimes Tribunal questline, I don't think many people would enjoy it as much as me, and I'm not sure how it could move the overall plot along.

[Necrotica]

The soldiers have a moral obligation to their families. Not random strangers in other countries.

The conscript that says 'fuck my family back home, I'm just gonna run away and take care of myself' would be looked upon as evil and rightly so.

[Cleretic]

I think Senti's one of the people who really struggles with understanding the dire situations some of the people we come across are in, because we personally are not in that situation.

I'm not talking 'they don't understand war IRL' or anything like that, I mean that it's hard for us to grasp just how hopeless the situation is for people in Ala Mhigo, Doma, or the First, or any number of other situations, because we're essentially turning up as their improbable last hope. We can look at Ala Mhigo and say 'yeah, this is fixable' in large part because we don't know the decades of utter hopeless domination they've lived through. We look at Eulmore and see 'this is absolutely horrific why would people agree to this' because we come from a world where there actually are better options rather than this being the only chance you've got to live in comfort.

[EdwinLi]

As much as I would love a Garlean War Crimes Tribunal questline, I don't think many people would enjoy it as much as me, and I'm not sure how it could move the overall plot along.

Interesting enough, if players remember, that back in Stormblood we have a side quest in Ala Ghiri that covered this topic involving a garlean conscripted named Baut.

He does openly admits he done horrible things under orders from his superiors when he was still a low ranking conscript soldier but once he manage to get a higher position and became the leader of the Garleans stationed in Ala Ghiri, he made active changes to policies towards treatment of people under the Garlean Controlled town of Ala Ghiri.

It resulted in both conscripts and even Garleans respecting him for improving the conditions of the town he is charged with and he made certain any mistreatment of the people in the town was punished.

However, as he admitted he still done horrible things under the command of his superiors when he was lower rank and he is only a conscript because his family and loved ones were at risk due to the Garleans taking over his home thus basically holding them hostage.

Out of fear that he may be executed, the towns people did actively hide him despite how he was willing to give himself up because they had already accepted him as one of their own due to how much he did to make the town better once he gained a high position and his position before the town was liberated was not a simple one since his family and loved ones were at risks if he done anything against the Garlean Empire or gave them a reason.

[thegreatonemal]

Interesting enough, if players remember, that back in Stormblood we have a side quest in Ala Ghiri that covered this topic involving a garlean conscripted named Baut.

He does openly admits he done horrible things under orders from his superiors when he was still a low ranking conscript soldier but once he manage to get a higher position and became the leader of the Garleans stationed in Ala Ghiri, he made active changes to policies towards treatment of people under the Garlean Controlled town of Ala Ghiri.

It resulted in both conscripts and even Garleans respecting him for improving the conditions of the town he is charged with and he made certain any mistreatment of the people in the town was punished.

However, as he admitted he still done horrible things under the command of his superiors when he was lower rank and he is only a conscript because his family and loved ones were at risk due to the Garleans taking over his home thus basically holding them hostage.

Out of fear that he may be executed, the towns people did actively hide him despite how he was willing to give himself up because they had already accepted him as one of their own due to how much he did to make the town better once he gained a high position and his position before the town was liberated was not a simple one since his family and loved ones were at risks if he done anything against the Garlean Empire or gave them a reason.

He wasn't a conscript he joined to do his twenty years of service for citizenship but his family died in a plague just when he hit that milestone. Other than him saying he was a meatshield like pretty much all conscripts are he never really talks about doing anything horrible. The citizens of the town hide him because they think the Alliance will just lock him up or kill him.