7.x Summoner Idea

[DamianFatale]

It has been a long time requested, but we still do not have Ramuh or Shiva summons. Heck, Blue Mage which is a limited, and not even a real job, got skills themed after them long before summoner. It is time that Summoner got these skills, so here is my idea.

When you go into phoenix mode, it should flip the summons for Ifrit/Garuda/Titan into new ones! Theme them after the opposite elements of the magia board.

Ice is the opposite of fire, and Ifrit pairs beautifully with Shiva. Having Ifrit turn into Shiva after firebird trance expires.

Lightning is the opposite of earth, so lets make Titan turn into Ramuh.

The opposite of Wind is Fire or Ice, so this part could get a bit confusing, and if you add another fire summon, that is THREE fire summons that summoner can do.. which I understand might be a bit annoying, but I will say this. Belias. Belias makes sense if we are going for an opposite theme. Belias also already has a model in the game, so it would work quite well. It is an esper! :3

[Vahlnir]

You know, this is actually a heck of an idea. Take my like.

[Raikai]

I feel that new gemstones on the Phoenix phase is the most obvious step for 7.0 Summoner... It just needs to be the missing Water, Lightning and Ice aspects. Water is also in opposition to Earth, so it would be in the place of Titan. Edit: Oh, I see now... the gemstones we got so far make that we can't have exact opposites without repetitions. Hmm... still, I think it would be just a matter of adding the missing elements.

I even made a doodle trying to manifest that!


It would be a thematic full circle for Summoner, being able to transverse through the entirety of the aetherical wheel... I would even say that Bahamut and Phoenix can represent the Umbral and Astral polarities respectively (even though the gemstones won't match that exactly, but every element can have either polarity anyway).

They could even explore a different gameplay approach. Since the 1st set of gemstones are more instant-cast based, this one could be the opposite way: one mobile instant-cast and 2 gemstones with cast times.

[hagare]

I like this idea.
But I just want them to add more egis.
I just don't know if it's an if or when situation

[Jirah]

wouldnt the opposite of ifirit be levi? then titan to shiva and then Garuda to Ramuh?

Lets think this logically your only spewing aesthetic which is widely superficial, in theory this would amount to a long ass rotation double the current size of 6.0 SMN. and 6.0 is already very well documented to be incredibly shallow and loose in terms of both gameplay and theme. Yea the hardcore larry fans might moo in glee that their summons show up for all of 4 seconds leave and nothing else happens, but i color it on the paper thin side. and plays way worse than it looks. also if patterns persist SMN wont get much but like idk a finisher or something benign and would play the same. Happened with MCH

[DamianFatale]

I feel that new gemstones on the Phoenix phase is the most obvious step for 7.0 Summoner... It just needs to be the missing Water, Lightning and Ice aspects. Water is also in opposition to Earth, so it would be in the place of Titan. Edit: Oh, I see now... the gemstones we got so far make that we can't have exact opposites without repetitions. Hmm... still, I think it would be just a matter of adding the missing elements.

I even made a doodle trying to manifest that!


It would be a thematic full circle for Summoner, being able to transverse through the entirety of the aetherical wheel... I would even say that Bahamut and Phoenix can represent the Umbral and Astral polarities respectively (even though the gemstones won't match that exactly, but every element can have either polarity anyway).

They could even explore a different gameplay approach. Since the 1st set of gemstones are more instant-cast based, this one could be the opposite way: one mobile instant-cast and 2 gemstones with cast times.

I love this. Still would look cool with Belias. Just because it would be a red/orange like gem, doesn't mean it couldn't be different from Ifrits.

[Momo_Kozuki]

I'm all for new summons, especially if their rotations are different from their counterpart (like Ifrit is gap-closer + strong fire-aspected ruin from a far, while Shiva is melee fast-space and can disengage as a finishing strike (or you can choose not, similar to RDM).


Also more skin for carbuncles.


Also perhaps Eden version of primals at lv90.

[Yasminou]

My take would be to have a lv.92 that indeed changes Summon X II into Summon Y, where Y is Leviathan, Ramuh and Shiva after Phenix. This would be the egi version with a Carbuncle version unlocked as egi-glamour only. Then, later (but maybe not lv.100), we would learn the Summon Y II spells with the true summon, as we do lv.90.

However, we need a different playstyle, otherwise this is just a glamour trait. For instance, Ramuh could have Shock Spikes as its Astral Flow which is an AoE buff around the caster: each time an enemy hits someone with Shock Spikes, they take damages. We would then need to find thematic Astral Flow for Leviathan and Shiva (maybe its conal AoE with large stalagmites, I forgot the name). Finally, I would like them to have a different number of Gemshine / Precious Brillance cast than the 2/4/4 we already have, something like 3/3/5 for instance.

[DamianFatale]

I like this idea.
But I just want them to add more egis.
I just don't know if it's an if or when situation

I'm so desperate for an egi update, I made an entire macro system to use to change my egi at any time I want.. its so redundant and needlessly complicated in the manner it is implemented. :L

[ty_taurus]

I'd argue this seems like the most natural upgrade of the new SMN and is a fairly realistic prediction, however it does have an annoying flaw. Having a 2 minute rotation is something SMN has had in the past and a big issue with it is how punishing it makes getting KOed. If your Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva phases are stronger than your Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda phases, then a reset on KO will feel really rough. Now, this doesn't mean it's entirely bad nor that it can't be done. Like I said, SMN had this before in SB, but it's definitely a negative that needs to be looked out for.

Here are some general thoughts I have about the long term future for SMN myself:

1. I'd like to see a fix to how pets work so that Carbuncle is no longer dismissed when summoning Demi-primals. The only reason he's still dismissed is because of old code, and while I really can't speak to the difficulty of making that a reality, I think it's very important if we want Carbuncle to be more than window dressing.

2. If point 1 can be done, expanding on Carbuncle's repertoire of tools, such as returning Searing Light to him. A couple other tools that could be associated with Carbuncle that I think would help keep SMN's rotation feeling fluid would be an action that grants you a random Gemstone when you otherwise have none, useful for delaying your next Bahamut/Phoenix in dungeons without just spamming vanilla Ruin/Tri-Disaster. You can only use this when you have no Gemstones to avoid exploiting the action to repeat your highest damaging phases. The other action deals very high damage based on your remaining gemstones and consumes them. This should not be as strong as the entire gemstone phase itself, but useful for when you're unable to use all your Gemstones before your next Bahamut/Phoenix, such as when a boss becomes untargetable for a segment of the fight. These may need to share a cooldown to avoid them being used together so that it doesn't feel like you're losing a part of your damage when using these actions to adjust your rotation.

3. Adjust SMN's single target roation to combo your AoE spell off your single target spell in any example like how Shadowbringers Phoenix worked. AoE buttons that exist for AoE only bother me because we don't have enough engaging AoE situations to warrant needing a separate AoE rotation, and SMN dedicates a lot of hotbar real estate to buttons that almost never get used outside of dungeon trash. If we make all the AoE spells combo, it adds an additional modicum of zest to SMN's gameplay and makes it so that half of SMN's action list isn't just AoE trash burning.

4. Potentially have Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva upgrade your current summons outright and just give the player to choose between which summons they want for the animations. In other words, your summon phases all get a DPS boost, and you have the option to choose between two summons for each phase visually. The suggested solution in TC's post is also an option, but like I said before, there is the concern of the added punishment on KO if your stronger summon phases are locked behind each odd minute of gameplay and can really throw off your rotation.

5. Add Alexander as a demi summon that can be summoned in place of Bahamut or Phoenix and exists on a longer cooldown. Or in other words, you save it for buff windows and summon Bahamut and Phoenix outside of buff windows.

6. Replace the Energy Drain > Fester/Painflare system into something that uses one-off attacks from Bismark, Ravana, Susano-o, and Lakshmi. Specifically, I have the mindset that consuming a gemstone now activates a specific summon. For example maybe Leviathan or Garuda gives you access to 1 use of Bismark's attack normally, and then maybe you have a Carbuncle action that gives you all 3 of Bismark, Ravana, and Susano-o the replaces Energy Drain. And then perhaps Lakshmi is just a separate cooldown with a buff, like a physical Magick Barrier.