It is not possible to play without doing dps as healer? every day i find someone...

[Coletergeist]

It's one button to dps.
It's much *much* simpler than performing a full on rotation or managing defensives and positioning bosses.
One button.
Dps is easy for dps jobs, sure, tanking is easier than that.
But wanna know what is *easier*?
One button dps as healer.
It's one button.

[Liam_Harper]

But you do realize there are like 80 year old grannies who play this game, or people who have physical disabilities. Those players should still be allowed to play the game and progress through the Dungeons and such, and I wouldn't call those players lazy.

I would.

All they have to do is alternate between pressing one button for aoe and single target heals. 3/4 healers don't even need a target for aoe so they can just target the tank, press their 1 aoe button and use their heal button if the tank drops low.
On bosses, tanks need very little healing so they could switch to aoe healing while again pressing one button and barely need to target switch.

Not ideal compared to a healer utilizing their entire toolkit optimally, but a million times more useful than twiddling your thumbs and disability friendly.

It's absolutely fine to be old, disabled, inexperienced or have low skill. If you aren't doing dps sometimes because there's a lot going on that's fine too. It's not fine to be able to contribute at least something and refuse to even try.

[FakeCirka]

I’m gonna put this part at the top...

I only read half your comment once, and that was because you clearly didn't read mine and started a rant on something you didn't read or misread.

... they work hard to improve, they like trying their best and they don’t want to be associated with no DPS healers because that’s what you see them capable of

Thats great that there are players who have disabilities and can do content perfectly fine. Not all disabilities are the same. Not all people are the same. I'm sure you know that though.

... I’m amazed at how much you do mental gymnastics to avoid any sort of point the other person is making ...

Just because I am not AGREEING with you does not mean I am avoiding any sort of point you are trying to make. I think you're more upset that I have the stance of "let bad players be bad because maybe theres a reason for it, especially in freaking NORMAL content that is forced upon them" rather than the stance of "healers must DPS at all times no matter what".

then insinuate that person is terrible on top of that for absolutely no reason.

I said "If you feel differently, you can, but I feel that makes you kind of a terrible person if you default to being mean to players in, lets be real, baby content lol". If you don't do this then these words are not directed towards you. If you do, then they do.

As someone who has a person with a disability in my static...

I play with a few people who have some form of disability which hinders their game play a lot as well. It VERY much bothers them when people have made comments about their play style. 2 of them both have a story where they ended up crying and wanting to quit the game over what people have said to them in normal content. Thats absolutely disgusting behavior. One is absolutely very sick and doesn't even know if she will be alive within the next 5 years, and its okay to make her feel like shit because she can't DPS during normal content dungeons? Let her have her enjoyment in a video game, Jesus Christ.

Ran out of text room to quote and respond to your last section. Tried to "respond to all your points" though.

If you agree that its fine if a player doesn't preform well due to reasons you may not know about (and by your last response to me, it seems like you do agree with it over all?), then why are you still trying to argue with me? I've already stated I feel a healer (and all jobs) should be using their full kit in true end game content such as Savage. I've also stated that if someone is legit just not doing their "job" because they are being lazy (although hard to prove in most cases), that's crappy of them. Not sure what more you are seeking to be honest, aside from just wanting to argue lol.

[Supersnow845]

quote .

I agree with your idea that if someone truly has a reason that they cannot perform well then in general for normal content they are fine (a quick heads up is always nice though). I 100% disagree with your extrapolation though that “since some people might have a valid reason and it’s normal content we should just let everyone do whatever they want” and especially in the form of “healers doing DPS should be seen as optional” nobody on here, me included is insulting players legit trying, Ty_taurus put it best, we are here arguing over faulty logic designed to defend people legit not trying.

If you see that as disagreement to your point then I’m fine with that, if I’ve misinterpreted your point (which I’ll admit reading my initial response I did on a few points so I’ll apologise on that front) then I honestly have no idea what your point is anymore

On the subject of your friends I’m sorry that happened but also I again say that “they might have a disability” shouldn’t be used as an omni defence because it can be just as hurtful to other players, I don’t have a disability so I’m not qualified to talk on this more I’m simply passing on what my friends have told me

[Semirhage]

I see the thread is back to Standard Sylphie Argument Number 6: "But 900 year old handless arthritic Maasai grannies might play on 5kbps connections! No complexity allowed on healers. Respect the Medica 2 spam as a perfectly valid and skilled gameplay choice!"

Missing the point again. 'Healing and buffing allies' class fantasy and 'doing damage to enemy' class fantasy are not interchangeable. I can't just flip a switch on my brain and start to find one enjoyable when I didn't before, superficial similarities of focus notwithstanding.

Though, I concur that buffing and encounter control are more interesting. Certainly more interesting than 'Push Enemy Healthbar Leftward Spell Number Eight (of Twelve)'. CBU3 doesn't seem to agree with us, though; they seem to be absolutely terrified of players being able to interface with their encounters beyond 'make bar go up or down'.

DPS (in FF14) is at least more involved than that. Not all of them, granted, but keeping track of procs. Knowing when to hold back and when to use a stored combo. Knowing where best to use a support ability. I've had WAY more fun rescuing failed runs with chained Verraises than I had trying WHM in Shadowbringers and feeling like I had little to no impact on any encounter beyond GlareHoly spamming. I called them Push Healthbar Rightward spells because that's literally all they are: largely interchangeable, hardly reward or punish you for making a "wrong" choice, and the decision tree is largely down to "is the party healthy enough for the next hit? No? Pick another one and cast it. Or the same one, who cares." DPS (at least the better designed ones) have a touch of decision making that actually noticeably impacts your performance (admittedly this has also been decreasing over time, though not as bad as healers yet). If I flub my casts, or Jolt spam, or freestyle an unenchanted melee combo, my performance takes a huge hit. If I cast Medica 2 instead of Cure 3, who cares? The next raidwide is scheduled to come out in financial quarter 3 next year, and both did the same thing for the same opportunity cost.

The thing is, this isn't new, and I don't mean that just in the context of FF14. The vast majority of RPGs I've played have utterly uninteresting healing "mechanics" slapped onto otherwise entertaining multitasker classes. Ironically 14 fits the oldschool Final Fantasy model of healing quite well! You have a set of boring noninteractive healing spells distinguished only by their potency, MP cost, and whether they hit the whole party or just one person. I'd much rather spend most of my time wondering whether Protect or Sleep or Poison would be a better choice next turn than thumb through the catalog of healing spells that are only pretending to have different effects. That catalog should be on my table within viewing distance, but the more time I'm called to look at it the more time I have to think about how interchangeable the spells are.

I guess what I'm saying is, I've seen FAR more success stories with making choice-intensive and fun kits with damage, support, CC, and debuffs. I've seen a LOT of attempts at "interesting" healing that land like a whoopee cushion. Ooo, an AoE HoT, nobody will see that one coming. A button that increases your healing spells by 15% for 10 seconds? Stop afore I'm overwhelmed by the interactivity.

[AmiableApkallu]

Ironically 14 fits the oldschool Final Fantasy model of healing quite well! You have a set of boring noninteractive healing spells distinguished only by their potency, MP cost, and whether they hit the whole party or just one person.

White Mage Rosa from FFIV would disagree with you there, I think. Half of her spells are devoted to dealing with buffs and debuffs, and she has the (unique) attack ability Aim, and this is in a game where Cure itself can be used an offensive spell against zombies.

FFXIV WHM is what you get when you strip combat of all that buff/debuff management and strip "white mage" of any sort of damage-dealing identity outside of Holy.

[Rilifane]

The GCBTW "we should be kind to each other uwu" prayer circle is amazing.

It's always the same:
someone says they don't want to dps. Others say that it's disrespectful to intentionally not do something that's literally ONE button. Somoene says "but they might be 80 years old or disabled or maybe just new, have you considered that???". Others say that mashing one button is still not difficult and they should still try. And then comes the best part: someone assumes they are being mean, rude and insulting to someone "not playing perfectly".

So we jumped straight from "someone refuses to dps because hEaLeRs sHoUlD hEaL and that's disrespectful to the rest of the party" to "you shouldn't insult, be mean and rude to people who may be 80 years old :c" and instantly got a sermon about how we should and nice to each other to make the world a better place<3.
Bonus points for the classic "I'd rather have a healer that doesn't dps than someone that LET'S ME DIE". How about neither? Why is one type of bad play used to excuse another type of bad play?

Let me make one thing very clear:
Nobody EVER condoned being rude, mean or insulting to someone not showing basic competency.
Nor was it EVER about "playing perfectly".
Is that so difficult to understand?

Dpsing on healer is not difficult. It's literally one button for basic damage. ONE.
The only way to not dps at least a bit on healer is either picking your nose the majority of the time or intentionally using your weakest, crappy GCD heals in order to seem busy and even then you'll have plenty of time. Contributing as much as you are able to is everyone's responsibility. You can clear any non-highend content with a healer only healing, a tank only grabbing aggro and then doing the /beesknees and the dps only auto attacking.
Doesn't mean that it's okay.

[ThorneDynasty]

I did a dungeon once, like One of the Firsts, dont Remember wich, where the whm were only pressing cure once in a while and then the emote Flex for the entirety of the dungeon, like Literally a hundred times.. i was playing on the ps4 that day and i could not get a volte kick through.. i usually NEVER care if the healer does not DPS, but that ppl, did not know why, really made me a bit mad cause i thought: if he can Press an emote, he can Press a Stone once in a while .

Hey at least they were doing something instead of just standing around or pretending healing 99% health players is keeping then busy or whatever is the hell it is that stops sylphies from contributing anything.

[vetch]

I see the thread is back to Standard Sylphie Argument Number 6: "But 900 year old handless arthritic Maasai grannies might play on 5kbps connections! No complexity allowed on healers. Respect the Medica 2 spam as a perfectly valid and skilled gameplay choice!"

Yes, and it's annoying because if they'd just drop pretense and say "DPS doesn't excite me and it isn't what I thought I'd signed up to do 95% of the time when I picked the green job" they'd have a much stronger position. It's a perfectly permissible sentiment to have. One might try to reply with "it more efficiently clears encounters" or "not doing it is disrespectful to your group" but I don't think any reasonable person truly believes that clearing encounters is all there is to the game or that we should abandon expectation of fun and play only for the sake of others... or else we wouldn't writhe so when saddled with healers' dreadfully tedious '1211111' DPS kit.

DPS (in FF14) is at least more involved than that. Not all of them, granted,

It's good that you granted that because it saves me from typing out some really terrible red-DPS kits.

but keeping track of procs. Knowing when to hold back and when to use a stored combo. Knowing where best to use a support ability. I've had WAY more fun rescuing failed runs with chained Verraises than I had trying WHM in Shadowbringers and feeling like I had little to no impact on any encounter beyond GlareHoly spamming. I called them Push Healthbar Rightward spells because that's literally all they are: largely interchangeable, hardly reward or punish you for making a "wrong" choice, and the decision tree is largely down to "is the party healthy enough for the next hit? No? Pick another one and cast it. Or the same one, who cares." DPS (at least the better designed ones) have a touch of decision making that actually noticeably impacts your performance (admittedly this has also been decreasing over time, though not as bad as healers yet). If I flub my casts, or Jolt spam, or freestyle an unenchanted melee combo, my performance takes a huge hit. If I cast Medica 2 instead of Cure 3, who cares? The next raidwide is scheduled to come out in financial quarter 3 next year, and both did the same thing for the same opportunity cost.

Problem being that CBU3 is allergic to skill tests on healers at any level of content. MSQ content, you can bring DPS who favor a 5-second GCD and still get the win. That's fine. But at Savage+ level, where the game demands practiced DPS rotations or you risk enrage, where it's actually possible to fail due to not playing DPS well enough, there's no corresponding check for traditional healer soft-skills like triage, reactive decision-making, managerial overview, or resource conservation. So of course there's so much pressure to green-DPS; healers haven't been given anything else to do! They literally forgot to install a skill ceiling for healers!

The thing is, this isn't new, and I don't mean that just in the context of FF14. The vast majority of RPGs I've played have utterly uninteresting healing "mechanics" slapped onto otherwise entertaining multitasker classes. Ironically 14 fits the oldschool Final Fantasy model of healing quite well! You have a set of boring noninteractive healing spells distinguished only by their potency, MP cost, and whether they hit the whole party or just one person. I'd much rather spend my time wondering whether Protect or Sleep or Poison would be a better choice next turn than thumb through the catalog of healing spells that are only pretending to have different effects. That catalog should be on my table within viewing distance, but the more time I'm called to look at it the more time I have to think about how interchangeable the spells are.

No, it doesn't fit the old model, because older Final Fantasys are turn-based and give you control of a team. So instead of watching my healer execute her long Holy animation for the hundredth time to do 70-80% of the damage of my offensive characters, I probably just ensure Haste is up and then either use a weak-but-quick melee attack or outright pass her turn to save real-world time. There's no capacity to choose that or any other clever little optimization in FF14 healing -- if you decline to GlareGlare your life away to do half the damage of a better-designed job, it doesn't transfer a faster GCD over so the other can take up your slack. Any similarities to older FFs are superficial.

I guess what I'm saying is, I've seen FAR more success stories with making choice-intensive and fun kits with damage, support, CC, and debuffs. I've seen a LOT of attempts at "interesting" healing that land like a whoopee cushion. Ooo, an AoE HoT, nobody will see that one coming. A button that increases your healing spells by 15% for 10 seconds? Stop afore I'm overwhelmed by the interactivity.

I, too, miss Guild Wars 1.

[T-Owl]

Problem being that CBU3 is allergic to skill tests on healers at any level of content. MSQ content, you can bring DPS who favor a 5-second GCD and still get the win. That's fine. But at Savage+ level, where the game demands practiced DPS rotations or you risk enrage, where it's actually possible to fail due to not playing DPS well enough, there's no corresponding check for traditional healer soft-skills like triage, reactive decision-making, managerial overview, or resource conservation. So of course there's so much pressure to green-DPS; healers haven't been given anything else to do! They literally forgot to install a skill ceiling for healers!
.

I feel like its even more problematic due to the fact that the Devs don't seem to have anyone dedicated to the healer role or even somebody understanding how the actual playerbase interacts with it, combined with a dismissive attitude of viewing actual healing as more of a burden, so they need to keep it as easy and non-threatening as possible so that everyone can succeed at it, which ironically just ended up with such low healing requirements and an abundance of powerful ogcd healing tools that dpsing as a Healer becomes even more expected, while the devs at the same time actively removed dps abilities so healers don't feel pressured to dps, which they already are by the very encounter design. I mean, I'm more in favor of healer dpsing because I think its the only way of making healers an engaged and busy job that isn't just passively standing around, just due to the fact that optimization and moving closer to the skill ceiling will automatically reduce healing uptime due to the reactive nature of that role, but most people agree that healers should have more healing to do and that their healing toolkits should be more engaging.