An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[PandaTaru]

Hey all,

Hvinire here with an update from Yoshida on this very topic. Sorry for the delay in responding but please check out the comment that Yoshi-P himself made regarding the community concerns over the current death penalty in Eorzea.



There you have it, now back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

That's a good death penalty as it would give more sense about having raise, and I'm still on my judgement about anyone asking for SP penalty. Plus, let's not forget that if you die more than 2 times while still weak, your char is as good as dead as the game currently disables all abilities until the death penalty timer is down.

Of course we plan to add a 10-20 minute recast timer, but by making the return cost 0:

(I) It eliminates the need to death warp in order to conserve anima

Not sure if it has been correctly translated and/or if I well understood.

In my case, I mostly use return when returning local leves, so if for some reason the timer is still running/up when I need to return, I would death warp. But then, I am not against a timer because reducing the cost of return to 0 on a instant timer would make some idiots spam return endlessly and add more stress to the servers. Pretty much like some jump endlessly in town in some other game.


Thank you for not adding something smarter than a simple SP/EXP penalty upon death.

[Lahru_Hukurou]

If you really feel like a harsher penalty is needed, take it upon yourself to punch yourself in the crotch. If you die multiple times punch your an additional time until you are finally out of a weakened state...

I completely agree with you. I really really do not enjoy losing exp due to inept players or other things that are out of my control. I don't mind being frustrated when playing a game. Like if I'm fighting a tough monster, crafting things higher than my level, exploring places that I have no business being in, and other things like that. Not when one or more party members don't know or care about how they are playing. I don't need FFXI-esque death penalty to have a great fear of dying. I hate dying, I like the death penalty just how it is, to be honest. I don't need to lose xp/sp to make me not want to die.

I don't want to go back to the days when most people were to scared to do much of anything. I really get tired of seeing the tank being the first one to run away when a fight goes wrong. Tired of people not wanting to take risks and fight that really tough monster. People didn't want to take risks on FFXI because of the death penalty. If I wanted all of that, I would be playing FFXI right now. I played it for a few years, it is time to move on. Games evolve, just like everything else in life, it is natural. Loosing the experience that you have gained from previous fights isn't very realistic. You don't lose your experience in real life, why should we have to do it in a game?

[Nephera]

That's a good death penalty as it would give more sense about having raise, and I'm still on my judgement about anyone asking for SP penalty. Plus, let's not forget that if you die more than 2 times while still weak, your char is as good as dead as the game currently disables all abilities until the death penalty timer is down.

Word

Not sure if it has been correctly translated and/or if I well understood.

In my case, I mostly use return when returning local leves, so if for some reason the timer is still running/up when I need to return, I would death warp.

Word

But then, I am not against a timer because reducing the cost of return to 0 on a instant timer would make some idiots spam return endlessly and add more stress to the servers.

I..what.. when has this ever happened?

Pretty much like some jump endlessly in town in some other game.

Oh you're joking, my bad.

[Akumu]

Cool Yoshi great ideas with the death penalty. My favorite part was the no xp/sp loss being implemented. I'm cool with any penalty really besides that. Xp/sp loss only creates a bunch of scared paranoid players and doesn't attract many casuals either.

It's cool to know our discussions are getting to Yoshi-P.

[PandaTaru]

Word

I..what.. when has this ever happened?




Oh you're joking, my bad.

I'm not joking and it has never/not happened (yet); but then, if you knew people better, you'd know that it is something that will/might happen. Want a good example? Think belgianROFL and also that he is not an exception.

A 5 minutes timer would be good enough.

[AngryNixon]

Leaving aside the penalty discussion for a minute, Yoshi's mention of tiered raises (regardless of how they differ) is good news because it would bring a normal Raise I back into the lower caster levels where there should be one. R38 was a little late for getting a raise (the only raise).

[BrusselSprout]

I think a lower level raise has been long overdue, so I'm glad that they're addressing that.

In my opinion it doesn't actually feel like he's adding a death penalty though, as much as he's adding a mechanic to remove the one we already have (perfect raise).

So...I guess I'm not sure that what he's proposing will actually have any effect.

[Chezen]

the mob still gets its aoe off just as it dies, obliterating 9-10 people and then...

we laughed and said "thats why you attack that mob first", no screaming matches about "OH THANKS JACKHOLE NOW I LOST AN HOURS WORTH OF WORK BECAUSE OF YOU" etc etc.

so yeah I kind of agree, death should be a set back of course, but not one that'll ruin your night.

Armor damage is harsher than what we have now but its not likely to ruin someone's day in one wipe (several successive ones maybe).

This. I truly don't understand why some would want a game to be punishing you. Games are meant to be fun.

Dying by itself is already undesirable to me. If I die, it means I lost my challenge.

I think Yoshi-P's penalties are good, actually.

But in my opinion, the return option should be removed and upon death, you'd be returned to the nearest crystal.

I think that's a great idea.

[ApplePie]

I think that is a good start. But the only way this will work is if I can reraise.... Atm it is horrible to be a caster with an ally who hasn't ranked up CON/THM. I can raise them but they can't raise me! Why would I be at rank 50 on both CON and THM and still not know how to raise myself if I can raise others? Thanks. I think adding a gil requirement to death is a bad idea. Adding a debuff beyond weakness like "attack down" if you are a dow or "magic potency down" if you are a dom is a good idea if it doesn't last too long. Maybe 5 minutes (or 2 and a half minutes after weakness wears off) of a total duration of this special debuff. I think currently nobody is actively trying to die but at the same time, nobody is actively trying not to die.

[zombie]

Equipment damage as a penalty is pretty weak.
SP penalty is the only real way to impose any sort of fear of death.
Right now, when my friend or I die while playing together, we laugh and joke about it. It's really quite pathetic.