Button bloat and patch balance

[Quyn]

Its funny that in any thread about button bloat/rotation or skill, mch is always regulated to 'easy' or 'simple'. When as of 6.0 mch had/has the second highest buttons per minute, second only to ninja. How is a job with zero utility and meh dps the second busiest button job? It doesn't make sense, and balance has been way outta wack on phys dps, especially mch, for years with a lot of player feedback and never once truly addressed. Regardless of issues with the story overall, Stormblood mch was a good change and spot for the design of the job in a lot of ways. Just like I thought shadowbringer's summoner was a good spot for the summoner. They could stand to be tweaked here or there, but overall mechanically they were solid at those points and then ShB imo negatively changed MCH like EW did to summoner. If they keep going down this route with jobs, they are going to oversimplify their jobs to a point of unpopularity for the game. Keeping the floor relatively low for newbs and casuals is fine, but can we stop lowering the ceiling as well?

"This is based on the CPM(cast per minute)s of the top 10 players from FFLogs Primal #2(Hydaelyn Extreme) rDPS rankings.

The CPM is for all weapon skills, spell, and abilities.

It does not take into account the complexity of skill turning, and is a simple measure of finger busyness.

Job CPM Min Max
NIN 45.6 44.4 46.4
MCH 45.1 44.2 46.4
BRD 42.5 42.1 43.3
SAM 42.2 40.5 43.2
GNB 41.5 39.7 43.9
DRG 40.9 40.3 41.8
MNK 39.8 38.8 41.3
AST 38.6 35.9 40.6
DNC 38.4 36.5 40.6
DRK 37.9 36.6 39.6
RDM 36.5 35.9 37.1
RPR 36.0 35.1 36.8
SMN 35.7 33.9 37.4
SCH 35.4 33.1 38.0
PLD 34.6 33.1 36.4
WAR 34.1 32.4 35.1
SGE 33.1 31.1 35.0
BLM 32.8 32.2 34.8
WHM 31.7 30.2 34.1
"

Button bloat and CPM are separate variables. Your job could have 5 keys with a CPM of 90.

When people refer to button bloat, they usually mean the quantity of unique skills they must bind and press, not the quantity of button presses per minute.

[WiccaP]

Button bloat and CPM are separate variables. Your job could have 5 keys with a CPM of 90.

When people refer to button bloat, they [I]usually[I] mean the quantity of unique skills they must bind and press, not the quantity of button presses per minute.

I understand, which is why I said button bloat / rotation or skill. While they are separate variables the quantity of buttons pressed per minute does affect the playstyle of the job as much as the quantity of skills that must be pressed in the rotation. The 2 are not mutually exclusive and both contribute to the job overall and affect each other. My point was that it is typically considered an easy rotation, and to be fair it's not the hardest rotation, but it is extremely button press heavy. Which would tie into the overall topic of the thread Button Bloat and Patch Balance. So yes, Mch rotation can be called simple, but its also one that can easily be messed up by a mistake or ping issues.

If we are going to compare jobs based on DPS or functionality, the MCH rotation being simple and needing you to press more buttons per minute to be somewhat close to the average of the other jobs, is a topic that falls under balancing issues.

[Quyn]

I understand, which is why I said button bloat / rotation or skill. While they are separate variables the quantity of buttons pressed per minute does affect the playstyle of the job as much as the quantity of skills that must be pressed in the rotation. The 2 are not mutually exclusive and both contribute to the job overall and affect each other. My point was that it is typically considered an easy rotation, and to be fair it's not the hardest rotation, but it is extremely button press heavy. Which would tie into the overall topic of the thread Button Bloat and Patch Balance. So yes, Mch rotation can be called simple, but its also one that can easily be messed up by a mistake or ping issues.

If we are going to compare jobs based on DPS or functionality, the MCH rotation being simple and needing you to press more buttons per minute to be somewhat close to the average of the other jobs, is a topic that falls under balancing issues.

Apologies, I skimmed over your post too quickly and misinterpreted your point.

I never understood why MCH has been placed at the DPS it is at. I agree that it should deserve to be higher.