What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Yencat]

Where did it say Hydaelyn had any intent to kill the scions? She said she was going to use all of her strength to overcome them and give them instructions to flee the planet if they were unable to defeat her. Her quote if you hit enrage is "Flee, you have been found wanting." and then the fight ends.

It'd be kinda hard to force the scions to flee if they were all dead.

She was obviously going to chuck our corpses on the moon and eject it into space!

But you're right, she says so before you fight her as well.

"Should you lack the strength to best a supreme deity, I cannot allow you to make the journey. You must leave this star and never look back."

[SentioftheHoukai]

Where were you when that guy made a whole re-write where she's a crazed murderer? Or just a couple of posts above this one:





The posts above mine say otherwise.

Oh, come off it. I refuse to believe you are so naive and blind to think that if someone made a thread about a proposed re-write/AU where Emet-Selch, Zodiark, Lahabrea, Elidibus, etc. were the heroes of the story (Let's call it a Fathercrystal AU) that the whole lot of you on the Lore subsection wouldn't come running down from the hills in droves as you always seem to just to dunk on it.

Fun fact: Venat did kill a considerable amount of people for flimsy reasons, and some of us do indeed consider her a crazed murderess for that. And that's okay, and a valid opinion to have.

Just because it's not your opinion doesn't diminish it's value, nor does Aveyond's thread lack meaning or worth just because you people happen to not like what it does to your precious Mother's public image. At the end of that day, all you had to do if it offended your very soul so egregiously is avoid the thread entirely. You really do not possess the moral high ground here.

The posts I quoted were just from today.

You haven't been here for long if you think that people haven't been simping for Ancients or wanting Venat to be a villain. The OP for the EW rewrite even said they wrote her as one in the post above this.

So what? When confronted by the reality that the Venat simps have been here for just as long if not longer, and the Ever Faithful Hounds of Hydaelyn bit and chewed the heels of any who'd dare tarnish her image even way back then what does this point even prove? We've always been outnumbered by the toxically positive GCBTW, and this phenomenon has only been exacerbated to the extreme post-Endwalker. There was also plenty of critique of Emet-Selch and the Ascians Three back then as well, I daresay they got as much hate as they did love. People understood and sympathized with a man's longing for his people's return, but for some reason that was twisted into desiring genocidal aims as it always seems to.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here or if you have the meanings of words mixed up.

The definition of an antagonist is the foe of the protagonist. It has nothing to do with morality. Hydaelyn is not opposed to the WoL or the other way around. You can have an evil protagonist but a heroic antagonist. There's plenty of video game examples out there like that.

The Ancients are not the protagonist of the game. She was certainly a foe to them, but we are not them, and our lives as well as all of those in the remaining unjoined worlds depended on defeating the Ascians. Worlds that, as corny as is is to say, were treated with unconditional love by Hydaelyn. Her motivations as written in the EW MSQ may be stupid as hell and the writers introduced a bunch of nonsense where there didn't need to be any, seemingly just to make everything fit the song Answers, but it doesn't make her an antagonist since she has never done anything but help our character defeat our foes and the game never treats her as one.

So much love, in fact that she was perfectly willing to let them all DIE if we failed her "test". Oh yes, SO MUCH LOVE! I can feel it, it's palpable in the charged air!

Before you start, by the way need I remind you that she admits to having given no thought in the slightest as to potential methods to salvage the remaining Shards in the event we were forced to resort to the Murder-Moon 9000 plan. She just concludes, "Welp, Meteion's coming! Meteion's coming! I'm so sorry my Brave Little Spark but the Shards and Ryne especially too are doomed to Oblivion and there's simply no conceivable way to save them SO I DIDN'T EVEN TRY."

[Striker44]

So much love, in fact that she was perfectly willing to let them all DIE if we failed her "test". Oh yes, SO MUCH LOVE! I can feel it, it's palpable in the charged air!

The absurd attempt at being condescending in the rest of your post killing your credibility aside, the part I'm quoting here makes even less sense. The entire point of the "test" is that we wanted to use the ship meant to ferry people and supplies to the Moon to go after Meteion instead. Meaning if we went after Meteion and failed, then everyone would die because the option of using the Moon to escape would be gone. Hydaelyn gave us the test because if we failed it, she wasn't going to let us use the ship to reach Meteion, meaning it would be used to evacuate as many people from the planet to the Moon as possible. The "test" was so people wouldn't die in the event we weren't prepared to fight Meteion.

[SentioftheHoukai]

The absurd attempt at being condescending in the rest of your post killing your credibility aside, the part I'm quoting here makes even less sense. The entire point of the "test" is that we wanted to use the ship meant to ferry people and supplies to the Moon to go after Meteion instead. Meaning if we went after Meteion and failed, then everyone would die because the option of using the Moon to escape would be gone. Hydaelyn gave us the test because if we failed it, she wasn't going to let us use the ship to reach Meteion, meaning it would be used to evacuate as many people from the planet to the Moon as possible. The "test" was so people wouldn't die in the event we weren't prepared to fight Meteion.

No, I don't think so. Doesn't matter how I say it, being condescending is what I'm left with because to use an Eara excuse I'm frankly fed up with the lunacy on this forum and am likely gonna be snippy from now on. Ignore my points if you wish, they honestly weren't for you anyway. Frankly, if one has to resort to dismissing what I have to say outright because I didn't say it courteously enough for your fragile maiden heart then you do so because you have no true worthwhile counterpoint.

Also, you've got the purpose of the "test" quite literally backwards as if we failed we would be shoved onto the Murder-Moon 9000 and delivered gift-wrapped directly into Meteion's waiting ebon wings. The Meteia are quite literally looking down upon the Star like kids with their faces pressed against the glass of a gumball machine at that point in the narrative, and if we ferried ourselves off the Star and out of Zodiark's protective aether barrier we'd be quite literally walking directly onto lava so to speak. I legitimately don't understand how people miss this, the Moon plan is quite literally doomed to fail because the moment anybody leaves the Star they get hit by the full force of Meteion's Black Dynamis and turn into a Blasphemy and die. Full stop, no exceptions. You really think the handful of Eorzeans permitted onto the Moon (remember the vast majority of the Source's inhabitants plus all the denizens of every Shard were gonna get abandoned) are at all likely to be non-susceptible to the Despair she brings, especially since in 6.1 we discovered it was completely random?!

Nah, I don't think so.

[DevonEllwood]

I love the stories of two ambitious women we got for this expansion. One was completely engrossed into understanding life down to it's building blocks and wanted to share that passion and ambition with a man who was completely enthralled with her. Nothing would get in her way as she lies through omission and uses mankind to further her agenda. The other one was Athena.

The second raid and the short story coming out in the same patch is complete irony. I could not help but think we got the same story of an individual twice. All we needed was there to be a man blindly obsessed with Venat aaaand there it is in the short story. I like that she stated that she wouldn't reveal everything so as to not give them preconceived ideas of the future or something. Because anyone with a brain would have backed down from her plan if they knew she was going to destroy their entire civilization and not just take on Zodiark.

Also if I'm going to be picky, there are rules in writing, just like there's rules in art. There's dos and don'ts into making something good. A seminar I went to a long time ago, pointed out that people can only process so many new pieces of information. Going over two and your pushing it. Thavnair gives us, alchemists can make realistic bodies, the ruler of the area is actually a dragon, the dragon is the boy, his eye is in the boy, he's been ripping his skin off to make charms, ALL in one cutcsene. This is a don't. This happens again with the second part of the raid, except slightly more spaced out. Like they're rushing to get all this information out because I'm pretty sure it was supposed to last all 3 raids, but I guess things changed? I don't know. I hope we get more of Athena, because all we need is another very shaky reason for her to be doing what she was doing, make it seem like there's no other choice, have her love humanity or something and bam, good person.

Also I love that Blade has joined the group now. We already have a (teenager?) who is actually a 10,000 year old dragon, we are just one obnoxiously loud, powerful idiot short of a full anime team.

You really think the handful of Eorzeans permitted onto the Moon (remember the vast majority of the Source's inhabitants plus all the denizens of every Shard were gonna get abandoned) are at all likely to be non-susceptible to the Despair she brings, especially since in 6.1 we discovered it was completely random?!

Nah, I don't think so.

We already know the sharlayans said their people were first to get on the moon, and then they would go down the list. I highly doubt they would have let garleans on the moon at all. I doubt there was room for the dragons and all the beast tribes. The idea was completely stupid.

[Rulakir]

Did we talk about the fact the Tales from the Dawn short story confirmed Venat didn't tell her followers the whole truth? I got so wrapped up in the lore forum about it I don't remember if it was brought up here. (I'm also too lazy to check and, besides, being proven right after all these months is worth repeating.

A Hermes short story is inevitable and could be anything. Other than that, I assume there will be a Vrtra/Thavnair one and maybe one for Garlemald.

[aveyond-dreams]

What we needed was an accurate account of the steps Venat took to try and steer her people away from the path of summoning both gods and the Sundering. I can't say I'm looking forward to hearing more of Vrtra after how one-note his character has become, going on and on about his sister and little else. Not interested in seeing Garlemald transition into a Sharlayan-style republic either.

Unless one is a fan of Venat, the Scions, or the city state leaders I don't see why I should look forward to the short stories.

[MikkoAkure]

snip.

I think the funniest thing about being quoted out of context is that I was responding to Theodoric who was trying to say that people aren't really simping Ancients or suggesting that Hydaelyn is a villain but I guess you helped prove him and the other person who replied to me wrong.

I was just pointing out that people have indeed done both, not sure where what you said is coming from in relation to my posts.

[Rulakir]

I don't care about Vrtra or Azdaja at all. I loved HW, but I'm tired of dragons and I still believe being able to miraculously save his sister from the void after 5k years is antithetical to the admittedly BS messaging of EW. It's just more of it being fine and working out for the WoL & Friends, just nobody else. I hope she's dead or beyond saving, but given a GPS device cured Zero I'm sure there will be some other magical plot device handed to the WoL that conveniently solves all their problems. Hydaelyn will probably be credited for that too. :P

[AmpelioB]

What we needed was an accurate account of the steps Venat took to try and steer her people away from the path of summoning both gods and the Sundering.

After all the "ending of a saga"? yoship spoke of? I doubt they are going over the ancients aside for sidequest.