Why in the world did they change Jump > Mirage Dive?

[Tlamila]

Yeah it was a problem for double-weaving. And now AST has the same problem with Minor Arcana, so it's beyond me why they made this change for AST after seeing the same change was a problem on DRG and reverted it.

[ThorneDynasty]

"But this one part in DSR where DRG is still one of the strongest DPS to bing you might miss a single jump in a buff window because of the timing! So it's totally absolutely unacceptable you have to be conscious of what you can weave and when, for a job that has it's identity built around animation locking".

Seriously, you don't ever have to double weave jump+mirage. The job is already about being conscious about weave-clipping with certain skills, asking you not to mindlessly spam the same one in a row isn't some huge DPS design faux pas.

[ZiraZ]

Good revert, DRG does not have a button bloat, that awful MD delay they added was very annoying.

[Antoine_Lenheim]

There's one particular fight where double weaving it is optimal, apparently. The first change was to remove button bloat, the second change was to make it harder to accidentally double weave but also made it impossible to intentionally double weave. So they reverted the whole thing.

[Aco505]

"But this one part in DSR where DRG is still one of the strongest DPS to bing you might miss a single jump in a buff window because of the timing! So it's totally absolutely unacceptable you have to be conscious of what you can weave and when, for a job that has it's identity built around animation locking".

Seriously, you don't ever have to double weave jump+mirage. The job is already about being conscious about weave-clipping with certain skills, asking you not to mindlessly spam the same one in a row isn't some huge DPS design faux pas.

It's okay if it doesn't affect you, but returning MD as it was before brings flexibility. Considering DRG is one of the most strict jobs, that's good.

Plus it's not about losing a HJ under buffs, it's about gaining as many eyes as possible, which is huge for the job. This change makes it easier for everyone to allow HJ + MD to be weaved together whenever desirable, which is a situation that can happen more than you may think, and could be very hard before unless your ping was almost perfect.

The DSR example is just one of many, but let's not lose sight of the fact that more flexibility allows for higher skill ceiling without harming the floor: a win-win situation.

[Antoine_Lenheim]

Seriously, you don't ever have to double weave jump+mirage. The job is already about being conscious about weave-clipping with certain skills, asking you not to mindlessly spam the same one in a row isn't some huge DPS design faux pas.

I don't pay too close attention to the top end optimization but I think it's a fight-specific thing for DSR and only DSR.

[ThorneDynasty]

It's okay if it doesn't affect you, but returning MD as it was before brings flexibility. Considering DRG is one of the most strict jobs, that's good.

You speak like slotting it in the same window as jump was some amazing trick. It was not, it's basically arbitrary how soon you use it as long as it is in a buff window. Any real flexibility comes precisely from being able to hold it for so long.

Plus it's not about losing a HJ under buffs, it's about gaining as many eyes as possible, which is huge for the job. This change makes it easier for everyone to allow HJ + MD to be weaved together whenever desirable, which is a situation that can happen more than you may think, and could be very hard before unless your ping was almost perfect.

How many eyes you accumulate? What do you mean? There's no drift with mirage dive, it's a proc. And what are these situations exactly, where it isn't simply a skill issue?

The DSR example is just one of many, but let's not lose sight of the fact that more flexibility allows for higher skill ceiling without harming the floor: a win-win situation.

Please, do point me where in the statistics there's half a blip in DRG viability when they patched in the mirage delay.

And no, being able to freestyle weaves without loss clearly does lower the ceiling. There's nothing to learn there. Taking a tiny loss because you slightly clip GCDs does not raise the floor though - that level of optimization has no impact at all to clearing normal content. It's not the biggest deal in the kit either way, but let's not pretend making oGCD slotting completely arbitrary isn't a form of dumbing down in the scheme of things. I just hope they don't now axe something more important for sake of button bloat, because apparently swapping around a couple weaves different from how they were used to was too hard for people.

[gamerseb]

They make the initial change, and the community gives negative feedback on it. Then they revert it, and the community gives negative feedback on reverting it.

Not easy to be a dev on this game.

[Blindheart]

They make the initial change, and the community gives negative feedback on it. Then they revert it, and the community gives negative feedback on reverting it.

Not easy to be a dev on this game.

You use the word community like its all one person. Its actually correct to say

The deves combined the skill and some of the player base disliked the change and complained. A different portion of the players liked the change but had no reason to come online to talk about it because they were happily playing the game

Then the devs listened to the first set of people complaining and changed it. Now the 2nd group of players who do like the change are upset and now are coming online to complain, and if they are like me, had no idea there was a group of people who did not like the change in the first place.

The devs in this case are falling into a survivorship bias by only having the one set of data from the angry players and ignored all the people who liked the change. Now we are letting them know that there are people who want them combined and asking to change it back

Or an even better solution is just remove dive altogether and just make jump directly add the charge into the job gauge and then we dont have to complain about the skill.

[zeth07]

They make the initial change, and the community gives negative feedback on it. Then they revert it, and the community gives negative feedback on reverting it.

Not easy to be a dev on this game.

That is entirely their fault though.

Where are they getting the information? Was it here? Were the Japanese players complaining about that? Because it has to start somewhere.

I haven't exactly been scouring the official forums but in other posts that came up about potential DRG changes and their whole idea that it needed an extensive rework I sure didn't see many people complaining about the Mirage Dive change AFTER Endwalker.

At some point from Endwalker launch until the initial change, there was a clear intent they were going for to combine the buttons. Meaning either people complained about that or they themselves thought it was needed. Keeping in mind this was AFTER Endwalker release when they already did major changes cause it's an expansion.

So then the change happens, and they were worried about the accidental clipping so they changed it AGAIN to alleviate an issue they thought there was.

And now they decide to revert it all back to Endwalker launch because people complained? So it's ok for those people to complain to revert the change and listen to them but not ok to listen to the people who initially complained to make the change to begin with?

That doesn't make sense and seems like a rather terrible way to handle Player Feedback as their only excuse. Like I legit wish I knew how they measured this outcry of feedback regarding Mirage Dive.