Live Letter Thoughts

[Jojoya]

This is a disingenuous way to phrase it. It's been made very clear that the Ancients sacrificed themselves to summon Zodiark and that they did so willingly, the story never supports that they were forced nor brainwashed into it. Whether the Convocation could be still considered responsible for their sacrifice is an interesting question, but it's certainly not as clear cut as the way you say it.

A lot of this conversation comes about only because the writer decided this is the way things should happen and didn't pour over possible consequences like players are.

What was made clear was that the Amaurotines had a belief that death renewed life so self-sacrifice was revered. No mention was made of the other societies with their own autonomous governments we know had existed on Etheirys thanks to the 5.0 side quest. Can we be certain that they also sacrificed themselves willingly, or is that just something being told to us by a member of the Amaurotine ruling class who held the belief and had a difficult time giving due consideration to others who didn't share that belief? You know, the same guy that had told us that he decided we weren't truly alive so it wouldn't be murder to kill us. Was all that something overlooked by the writer in creating the story?

If Venat's plan hinged on the Convocation summoning Zodiark, why would she remain silent instead of speaking with them? The WoL was told in Elpis that while their actions on Elpis would not change the WoL's past, they could change the future of the Amaurotine-era Etheirys. You would think that Venat would have done everything possible to make certain her plan had all the i's dotted and t's crossed. Was that also overlooked by the writer?

Then there's Argos, which is the supposed proof our timelines truly did converge. Did it not strike anyone else as weird that while Argos refused to carry us at first despite Venat's request, it had no problem immediately carrying Y'shtola, Thancred and Urianger at the Watcher's request? Again, perhaps another detail overlooked by the writer.

Again, it's a story. What happens in the story is all fiction created for the writer's purpose. You guys are allowing yourselves to get too worked up over it. There's a big difference between saying "Venat is evil" and saying "I don't think the writer did a good job of convincing me that I should view Venat favorably".

One thing that makes me very curious: assuming these were actual events and not a writer's imagination, what do you think would have happened to Etheirys if Venat had simply stepped aside and done nothing at all?

You didn't major in Literature, did you? :P

You're right. As much as I love to read, I got tired of being told by instructors that there's only a single way to interpret a given piece of literature and so crossed that out on my list of possible majors. I loved those occasions I could find statements by the author that it was up to the individual reader to decide the meaning and still I'd be told I was wrong (despite one of those statements actually being included in the author's preface to the book of his short stories).

Being closeminded to other opinions is a sure path to stagnation. You don't have to agree but at least listen in case something is said that might give you a different view and give credit when their argument is constructed well.

[Kazhar]

A lot of this conversation comes about only because the writer decided this is the way things should happen and didn't pour over possible consequences like players are.

What was made clear was that the Amaurotines had a belief that death renewed life so self-sacrifice was revered. No mention was made of the other societies with their own autonomous governments we know had existed on Etheirys thanks to the 5.0 side quest. Can we be certain that they also sacrificed themselves willingly, or is that just something being told to us by a member of the Amaurotine ruling class who held the belief and had a difficult time giving due consideration to others who didn't share that belief? You know, the same guy that had told us that he decided we weren't truly alive so it wouldn't be murder to kill us. Was all that something overlooked by the writer in creating the story?

I'm fine with speculation, but this is entirely baseless. It comes from more than one source (not only Emet-Selch, but also Hythlodaeus, the side stories and possibly more) at no point any character disputed the claim. Also, we have no reason to believe Hydaelyn's summoning worked differently and it was told than their summoners too willingly sacrificed themselves too. This isn't even a case of "a writer forgot", it simply didn't happen in the story they told.

Again, it's a story. What happens in the story is all fiction created for the writer's purpose. You guys are allowing yourselves to get too worked up over it. There's a big difference between saying "Venat is evil" and saying "I don't think the writer did a good job of convincing me that I should view Venat favorably".

Well, discussing the merits of the story in a discussion forum is the entire point, so I'm not too sure where you're going with it. Should I just give up trying to make sense of it because "it's so poorly written it's better to not think about it too much"? There are plenty of really great stories I've seen and read I'm able to analyze and discuss for literal years, and sometimes appreciate them even more for it. If Endwalker gets demolished by the smallest of scrutiny, perhaps it just wasn't a good story in the first place.

[Jojoya]

I'm fine with speculation, but this is entirely baseless. It comes from more than one source (not only Emet-Selch, but also Hythlodaeus, the side stories and possibly more) at no point any character disputed the claim. Also, we have no reason to believe Hydaelyn's summoning worked differently and it was told than their summoners too willingly sacrificed themselves too. This isn't even a case of "a writer forgot", it simply didn't happen in the story they told.



Well, discussing the merits of the story in a discussion forum is the entire point, so I'm not too sure where you're going with it. Should I just give up trying to make sense of it because "it's so poorly written it's better to not think about it too much"? There are plenty of really great stories I've seen and read I'm able to analyze and discuss for literal years, and sometimes appreciate them even more for it. If Endwalker gets demolished by the smallest of scrutiny, perhaps it just wasn't a good story in the first place.

Or you could take it to the lore forum that's intended for discussion instead of derailing a thread created for discussion of the Live Letter. Not to say that you're the one responsible or I'm completely innocent of it myself. A lot of people have been derailing the thread all along, including the OP.

As for whether Endwalker was a good story, I'd call it decent but definitely could have been done better. I think the problem is that they smashed what had originally been planned out as 2 expansions worth of story into a single expansion. That ended up cutting out a lot of potential story development that could have made better sense of things. This should have been the Garlemald expansion. Post expansion should have been the moon and set up for the Final Days (with Zodiark as the X.3 trial boss) and 7.0 the Elpis/Ultima Thule expansion.

Still I was well entertained and since I play the game for entertainment, I'm happy enough. I don't expect a MMO story to be on the level of literary classics. MMO stories still have to be adjusted to allow for game play.

[VelKallor]

As for whether Endwalker was a good story, I'd call it decent but definitely could have been done better. I think the problem is that they smashed what had originally been planned out as 2 expansions worth of story into a single expansion

..and then we'd be getting complaints from guess who that the MSQ was 'too long"

[Solarra]

You're right. As much as I love to read, I got tired of being told by instructors that there's only a single way to interpret a given piece of literature and so crossed that out on my list of possible majors...
...Being closeminded to other opinions is a sure path to stagnation.

I felt so sad reading this, your instructors did you a great disservice. The main purpose of education should be to encourage people to think for themselves.

I must say I'm enjoying the debate. I know people tend to be passionate about their games and games aren't great literature, but they are an art form and definitely worth discussing.

With a game that is principally story-driven I think fans are entitled to expect a higher standard than they would for a combat-based game. Although, in this case I suspect the very length and complexity of the story was why we ended up so many plot holes and inconsistencies in EW.

It could have been handled better and I feel a little sorry for the writers having to tackle such an enormous task in such a short amount of time. Considering the whole thing was wrapped up in a rush, I'm not entirely surprised it failed to hit the mark.