the normal content is too easy

[LisSquid]

That's my main worry, really. We had a really good balance between the single player and group player focus since ARR. Neither totally satisfied (because obviously both camps would want the game to be 100% in their favor), but the fact both persist and continue to love the experience means it was successful in accomplishing what it set out to do.

Pushing more towards designing content with the solo experience in mind feels like trying to layer the wedding cake in the wrong order.

[TaleraRistain]

That's my main worry, really. We had a really good balance between the single player and group player focus since ARR. Neither totally satisfied (because obviously both camps would want the game to be 100% in their favor), but the fact both persist and continue to love the experience means it was successful in accomplishing what it set out to do.

Pushing more towards designing content with the solo experience in mind feels like trying to layer the wedding cake in the wrong order.

Was it really a good balance, though? I mentioned this in I think the live letter thread but with this change they're cementing the MSQ as the base JRPG experience and that will allow them to expand the optional content with the normal MMO standards. The lines here have been a bit blurred in the past and it feels like that's where some conflict comes from.

[LisSquid]

snip

With some exceptions, I think the balance where we have solo duties for story beats have been used with great effect. Especially lately. Dungeons and trials have been sporadic enough (giving the solo player the feeling of a satisfying narrative ride), with dungeons and trials (frequent enough to quench the thirst of the group player) punctuating appropriate moments.

Pushing it to be 100% solo is going to cause more conflict than not.

[Supersnow845]

Was it really a good balance, though? I mentioned this in I think the live letter thread but with this change they're cementing the MSQ as the base JRPG experience and that will allow them to expand the optional content with the normal MMO standards. The lines here have been a bit blurred in the past and it feels like that's where some conflict comes from.

Yes because they also simplified every facet of the game so that the MSQ was accessible to everyone, so now we have a job and encounter design system they spent 2 expansions working on that caters to the lowest common denominator so that the MSQ was accessible now they are devoting even more resources to making the MSQ even more accessible and we are still stuck with the horrid modern job an encounter design system

Do one or the other but both both because all it means is it leads to an actively worse experience for people who actually want to play this as an MMO

[TaleraRistain]

Yes because they also simplified every facet of the game so that the MSQ was accessible to everyone, so now we have a job and encounter design system they spent 2 expansions working on that caters to the lowest common denominator so that the MSQ was accessible now they are devoting even more resources to making the MSQ even more accessible and we are still stuck with the horrid modern job an encounter design system

Do one or the other but both both because all it means is it leads to an actively worse experience for people who actually want to play this as an MMO

I'm going to dispute the idea that job changes were a direct correlation to the MSQ. Encounters have changed from ARR to now to requiring a higher response time and more necessary mobility in the fight, along with having more mechanics that utilized the entire arena and triggers in unexpected areas like the sides. Having to try to maintain a strict rotation may have limited them in what mechanics they could introduce. I know as a white mage it would be a lot more challenging to support my party if I didn't have my lily abilities and they hadn't adjusted Assize. Especially in something like say Zodiark. Previous encounters I could manage with Medicas and Cures which made me a lot less mobile, because the encounter required less mobility.

We don't know either way for sure. I'm just presenting a different viewpoint. I think it will be helpful going forward if they start explaining changes more, which is something they said they will start doing in the most recent live letter.

[Supersnow845]

I'm going to dispute the idea that job changes were a direct correlation to the MSQ. Encounters have changed from ARR to now to requiring a higher response time and more necessary mobility in the fight, along with having more mechanics that utilized the entire arena and triggers in unexpected areas like the sides. Having to try to maintain a strict rotation may have limited them in what mechanics they could introduce. I know as a white mage it would be a lot more challenging to support my party if I didn't have my lily abilities and they hadn't adjusted Assize. Especially in something like say Zodiark. Previous encounters I could manage with Medicas and Cures which made me a lot less mobile, because the encounter required less mobility.

We don't know either way for sure. I'm just presenting a different viewpoint. I think it will be helpful going forward if they start explaining changes more, which is something they said they will start doing in the most recent live letter.

I don’t that’s necessarily true considering WHM was never less mobile than it was in ShB, more rigid rotations didn’t preclude more complex and different mechanics all it does is make it more punishing to mess them up, the obvious exception to this is ultimate which works better with modern design because of the amount of downtime not just ruining everyone’s rotation just because like it did in stormblood but that is a very small part of a much wider situation

Rotations should work around whatever they design not the other way around, it plays into the problem of the ranged tax and the stale nature of current arena and boss design as well

[TaleraRistain]

I don’t that’s necessarily true considering WHM was never less mobile than it was in ShB

As a WHM since ARR, I'm going to respectfully disagree with this point. I had easily mastered the sweet spot for movement on a cast so it would still go off before the lily system but I find that I am able to be much more fluidly mobile than the past. It's similar to when they removed Cleric Stance from being an actual stance. I could dps under old Cleric Stance. The change just made it a much more fluid experience.

[Supersnow845]

As a WHM since ARR, I'm going to respectfully disagree with this point. I had easily mastered the sweet spot for movement on a cast so it would still go off before the lily system but I find that I am able to be much more fluidly mobile than the past. It's similar to when they removed Cleric Stance from being an actual stance. I could dps under old Cleric Stance. The change just made it a much more fluid experience.

WHM just had more movement options in older content because DOT’s had a shorter refresh timer and we had 2 (not counting aero 3 since it had a cast timer) WHM’s one movement option in 5.x was dia’s refresh timer (outside of slide casting), WHM was incredibly non mobile in ShB, it’s why I wanted Dia reverted to aero’s shorter duration rather than this stupid 1.5 seconds on every healer that just ruined the use of lily’s