Allowing Gear Change in Active Mode

[Molly_Millions]

I'll just leave this here:

Spoke with Battle Master Matsui to get the lowdown on the whole gear swapping question that's got you all buzzin'. In regards to swapping gear while in battle, since changing certain gear while in battle will change your class in FFXIV, we're not planning to make it possible to swap gear in battle. This direction will not change in the future.

We are focusing instead on making adjustments with the battle-related fixes to ensure that you can battle to your utmost ability without having to rely on changing gear multiple times mid-fight.

[Wolfie]

Someone call the Waaaaambulance... And the Immersion Police.

First off the comparison between FFXI and FFXIV being used as a validation factor of a game mechanic (gear swapping) contradicts two things:

1) Pretty much the same ppl bitching that XIV shouldn't gear swap because XI did it as a "proven abuse of a game mechanic" are the same people bitching in other threads that the two games shouldn't be used as a comparison of the other because they're entirely different game (XI being a decade old with "horribly antiquated" design"). Hmm hypocritical much?

Nobody says this. What we say is that we shouldn't copy from FFXI to turn FFXIV into FFXI 2.0. But nobody in their right mind says "don't compare MMOs". Even if they did, then comparing the two is a valid thing to do because it lets you analyze what the impact of a game play change does on an MMO.

2) it's being stated that SE has "pretty much guaranteed Gear Swapping will NOT be in FFXIV". Umm nahh, youre "pretty much" all assuming that. We all know the thing about assumptions right? We should because I see plenty of posters on this forum berating other posters for simply assuming things. Funny that its the same names nearly every time too. Hmm hypocritical much... once again.

Maybe you should actually read the whole topic, because someone posted Bayohne's quote confirming that the devs don't want to implement this.

About FFXI Gear Swapping. Having played XI 7+ years, myself AND my many ls mates watched SE pump out Gear Swap armors, weapons, and accessories continuously. So if Gear Swapping was "the abuse of an unintended game mechanic" and it "ruined game immersion" and was "only supported by cultists epeen players" then why did SE continue to release and still do release pieces specifically implemented for gear swap? Because they were "worried about the playerbase backlash"? Really? The same company that banned millions of accounts over Salvage Dupes, which is also "abuse of a unintended game mechanic"? The same DevTeam that had little to no community presence nor did they care show they cared to have any?

Yes, actually. That is exactly why they didn't remove it.

And because it would require them to retroactively change gear and content design to have tiered gear and content, instead of everything being sidegrades.

There's a lot of melodramatic BS claims being made in this thread when it all really boils down to:

- Ppl hate Gear Swaps because they were either too lazy to devote the time to farming the pieces or were scared of them because they never really made it deep into End Game status.

Care to make some points that aren't ad hominem attacks?

I NEVER have EVER heard anyone bitch about Gear Swaps until I read this thread. This was really a surprise to me to see all you self proclaimed FFXI VETS bitching about Gear Swaps. In the ACTUAL FFXI End Game scene we didnt bitch about Gear Swaps. Why? Because we loved the fact that it was just one more visual piece of evidence that WE understood and devoted a great deal of time to fully understanding the game and its finer moments/concepts of play.

You're confusing something people did because they had to, with people liking it.

Of course those of you that oppose Gear Swaps are going to be butthurt at what I write. You're also going to lash out at me with unneeded animosity. But I could seriously care less. Its no more than what you deserve for camping this thread with absurd claims of the "right and wrong way" to develop games when the majority of you wouldnt be wasting your time in FFXIV if you were a game developer/producer, you would be working on your own projects in hopes of being "the next better than FFXIV/FFXI MMO".

Anyway have fun. Sorry to interrupt your drama llama parade. You may continue now :3

Good way to cover your ass when you type up a post full of illogical arguments and ad hominem attacks. "yah, ur going to call me out on it but idc bcuz ur all jerks and that makes u wrong"

[Scarface]

This thread has surely been as ineffective as the "Let us ride Chimera" thread.

[syntaxlies]

Someone call the Waaaaambulance... And the Immersion Police.

First off the comparison between FFXI and FFXIV being used as a validation factor of a game mechanic (gear swapping) contradicts two things:

1) Pretty much the same ppl bitching that XIV shouldn't gear swap because XI did it as a "proven abuse of a game mechanic" are the same people bitching in other threads that the two games shouldn't be used as a comparison of the other because they're entirely different game (XI being a decade old with "horribly antiquated" design"). Hmm hypocritical much?

2) it's being stated that SE has "pretty much guaranteed Gear Swapping will NOT be in FFXIV". Umm nahh, youre "pretty much" all assuming that. We all know the thing about assumptions right? We should because I see plenty of posters on this forum berating other posters for simply assuming things. Funny that its the same names nearly every time too. Hmm hypocritical much... once again.

About FFXI Gear Swapping. Having played XI 7+ years, myself AND my many ls mates watched SE pump out Gear Swap armors, weapons, and accessories continuously. So if Gear Swapping was "the abuse of an unintended game mechanic" and it "ruined game immersion" and was "only supported by cultists epeen players" then why did SE continue to release and still do release pieces specifically implemented for gear swap? Because they were "worried about the playerbase backlash"? Really? The same company that banned millions of accounts over Salvage Dupes, which is also "abuse of a unintended game mechanic"? The same DevTeam that had little to no community presence nor did they care show they cared to have any?

There's a lot of melodramatic BS claims being made in this thread when it all really boils down to:

- Ppl hate Gear Swaps because they were either too lazy to devote the time to farming the pieces or were scared of them because they never really made it deep into End Game status.

I NEVER have EVER heard anyone bitch about Gear Swaps until I read this thread. This was really a surprise to me to see all you self proclaimed FFXI VETS bitching about Gear Swaps. In the ACTUAL FFXI End Game scene we didnt bitch about Gear Swaps. Why? Because we loved the fact that it was just one more visual piece of evidence that WE understood and devoted a great deal of time to fully understanding the game and its finer moments/concepts of play.

Of course those of you that oppose Gear Swaps are going to be butthurt at what I write. You're also going to lash out at me with unneeded animosity. But I could seriously care less. Its no more than what you deserve for camping this thread with absurd claims of the "right and wrong way" to develop games when the majority of you wouldnt be wasting your time in FFXIV if you were a game developer/producer, you would be working on your own projects in hopes of being "the next better than FFXIV/FFXI MMO".

Anyway have fun. Sorry to interrupt your drama llama parade. You may continue now :3

this person made me hate gear swaps more then i did before.

[CrystalWeapon]

This is the thread that doesn't end,
Yes it goes on and on my friends.

Some people started arguing not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue arguing forever just because [...]

[Sagagemini]

No, thanks.
We have enough inventory problem as it is.
Imagine carrying 30 pieces of gear for each job you have.

[Yves]

No, thanks.
We have enough inventory problem as it is.
Imagine carrying 30 pieces of gear for each job you have.

This is really where I come from on this. Like I posted earlier, I'm at 155/200 with only one or two crafting materials present. However, here are some very logical reasons why the idea is not really as great as people seem to think along with some alternatives that seem like rational options.

1. Inventory - If you take the same approach that I do which is to gear to the best of your ability you will be upwards of 130 slots for all 50's and all crafting jobs. While you could store crafting gear and less common jobs on a retainer the UI and server really make this a pain. One of the attractions of the armory system is that you can change "on the fly" and repair in the field or craft during downtime between events. The game really shouldn't be a "hurry up and wait" process and these nuances really serve to keep people busy and entertained.

2. Increased Output - The key benefit to the gear swapping in XI was that productivity could really be maximized if you a) knew what you were doing and b) had the resources (mainly time) to invest into getting the right gear. This gave the game a really deep layer of depth and a sense of motivation and accomplishment. Swapping COR headpieces to shoot on the go and get the most out of elemental cards was great. So was swapping the 20% increase you could get as a SAM if you made the right swaps. But is this a necessity? Not really. It can be argued that the same mechanics can be put into place with the materia system. For example, someone with 3 or 4 tier IV STR materia on a handpiece is obviously going to really make their damage "pop" and this can be achieved without swapping gear. At the same time, the resource investment and level of "l33t" is going to be present. The average player doesn't have the amount of time and gil to buy/craft a ton of hand pieces and obtain all the required materia needed to make a successful piece. This argument actually supports the idea that exact same mechanics are already present.

3. The Macro System - There are 10 slots per macro. While I loved the depth that gear swapping brought I can tell you that having to hit one macro to swap to my WS set, followed by a macro to buff/WS, followed by another macro to swap back to TP gear was ridiculous. We have 10 slots as opposed to XI but this is still going to be prevalent. Also consider the inconsistency of macro swapping as it is now - I often hit my job swap macros only to have one or two pieces get skipped because the UI is not optimized (maybe 20% of the time.) So does a 1/5 failure rate really seem productive? I don't think so.

4. The Skill Factor - Okay, let's put this one to rest - having better gear does not = having better skill or a firmer grasp of the game - it indicates that a player either got lucky (I went 3/4 on Eastern Shadow) or just had the resources (again, gil and time) to obtain the optimum items. For people that suggest swapping the heavy darklight armor in for voke, flash, etc. we know this requires a speed run win of Vale. And yes, that requires some skill. But, at the same time, a random person could get into a pickup group and get the drop so it is a function of luck and resources. I have known many players in XI that, while not having the essential build of gear, outparsed and outworked the players who did because they knew their job better than others. This is like the SAM with every possible piece - they may nail a WS for 30% more than everyone else but they don't do a lot of good if they pull hate and croak. I have seen tons of players without the best pieces perform better than those who possess them and I have come across more than enough people who were decked out that actually had no understanding of emnity or party dynamics. The idea that having more resources makes someone better is laughable - it only increases the probability and even then it is not a dramatic gap.

The conclusion indicates that the current system (materia) possesses the same qualities that people want from gear swapping. Maybe the request should be for more uniquely dominant gear instead of asking for a bunch of situational pieces - gear which can have materia stacked on it. We don't need a belt that adds emnity +40 on it - we have the sentinel's plate belt which you can +50 to. If anything, let's expand on an already great system that will appease both sides.

If you have a counter-point or something that was not touched upon please bring it up. But so far I have really only seen a small handful of valid arguments for and against the idea.

[Dragon]

Because they gave up on changing it. They couldn't take it out because the backlash from the community would ruin everything.

They gave up on changing, so they chose to just exacerbate it even further? I'm not talking about not taking it out. If gear-swap was truly an exploit, don't you think for one second they'd not have released gear that anyone's grandma could realize to be used only for gear-swapping purposes?

^This.

The effort it would have taken to remove gear swapping once they realized people were doing it would have been far too much to do. Instead they just went with it. Obviously, they kicked themselves for making that decision because they intentionally built this game to prevent gear swapping and there was an official communication at some point that flat out stated gear swap will not be a "feature" in XIV.

Gear swap is a nightmare on player inventories.

It is a cheesy way to min/max on the fly and adds absolutely nothing to the enjoyment of the game for regular, non-hardcore gamers. (read: the vast majority of players)

It is also would be a nightmare for the developers to have to take into account when creating future content.

They gave up on changing, so they chose to just exacerbate it even further? I'm not talking about not taking it out. If gear-swap was truly an exploit, don't you think for one second they'd not have released gear that anyone's grandma could realize to be used only for gear-swapping purposes?

[Rydin]

The conclusion indicates that the current system (materia) possesses the same qualities that people want from gear swapping. Maybe the request should be for more uniquely dominant gear instead of asking for a bunch of situational pieces - gear which can have materia stacked on it. We don't need a belt that adds emnity +40 on it - we have the sentinel's plate belt which you can +50 to. If anything, let's expand on an already great system that will appease both sides.

SLightly off topic but I can't wait for the materia system to be fully realized... It has so much potential

[Sagagemini]

SLightly off topic but I can't wait for the materia system to be fully realized... It has so much potential

So much potential on screwing rare/ex items lol.
I hope SE balance things right.