New healer; getting Sage to 80?

[Supersnow845]

I'd say to try Sch before starting Sage, at least until lv60-70 because for a more casual/leveling playstyle they're almost identical jobs (all the differences like fairy placement, using recitation to gain extra ED or the opportunity cost of Aetherflow heals are meaningless unless you wanna squeeze the 100% of the job which someone who is starting with healers I doubt would do) that flow very similarly with the pros that while leveling Sch you get your skills gradually and gives you time to get used to them, later on you can get Sage and simply "translate" the skills like:

Adlo/Physick=Eukrasian Diagnosis/Diagnosis
Succor=Eukrasian Prognosis
Deployment tactics+Adlo=~Zoe+Eukrasian Prognosis (not exactly a 1 to 1 comparision even for casual gameplay)
Lustrate=Druochole
Excogitation=Taurochole
Sacred Soil=Kerachole
Indomitability=Ixochole
Whispering Dawn=~Physis
Fey Blessing=~Holos

And so on, its really... concerning how similar those two jobs are

Don't be scared to try any healing job, is by far the easiest role of the game and the more you level up the more other roles can compensate and/or substitute you so your mistakes affect less the party

I’ll at least give that despite having way too many overlapping skills the two jobs don’t really play very similarly due to the fairy and the presence of ED

It’s about the only thing I’ll give 6.0 healer design, they made two jobs that have more direct comparison skills than non direct comparison skills yet somehow managed to get them to play basically nothing like each other

[WaxSw]

I’ll at least give that despite having way too many overlapping skills the two jobs don’t really play very similarly due to the fairy and the presence of ED

It’s about the only thing I’ll give 6.0 healer design, they made two jobs that have more direct comparison skills than non direct comparison skills yet somehow managed to get them to play basically nothing like each other

Keep in mind 2 things

-In dungeons the fairy is on follow the vast majority of time and boss arenas are not big enough to make fairy placement something significant so at that level fairy ogcds as long as the AI behaves well are functionally very close to normal ogcds

-The ED payment and how to optimize it is something you really worry about more when you know the ropes of the job, while leveling, especially now that ED plays no part in mp management, ED is something more secondary that you do once you've done your usual healing so the differences between aetherflow and addersgall are less present

I think you mistake skill floor and skill ceiling, Sch and Sge skill floor are the exact same because in a non optimized scenario they are almost identical jobs, is the optimization and how you manage to get the 100% of the kit what makes them somewhat different and honestly it feels more like an accident from SE than anything else, as if they knew that removing ED meant that Sge and Sch would be the most identical jobs in the history of the game but didn't really knew/bother to think a version of those 2 that is different enough for ED to be removed

[Supersnow845]

Keep in mind 2 things

-In dungeons the fairy is on follow the vast majority of time and boss arenas are not big enough to make fairy placement something significant so at that level fairy ogcds as long as the AI behaves well are functionally very close to normal ogcds

-The ED payment and how to optimize it is something you really worry about more when you know the ropes of the job, while leveling, especially now that ED plays no part in mp management, ED is something more secondary that you do once you've done your usual healing so the differences between aetherflow and addersgall are less present

I think you mistake skill floor and skill ceiling, Sch and Sge skill floor are the exact same because in a non optimized scenario they are almost identical jobs, is the optimization and how you manage to get the 100% of the kit what makes them somewhat different and honestly it feels more like an accident from SE than anything else, as if they knew that removing ED meant that Sge and Sch would be the most identical jobs in the history of the game but didn't really knew/bother to think a version of those 2 that is different enough for ED to be removed

Oh I’m not saying they are different in dungeon content mostly (though fairy totem healing is a godsend in the second boss of dead ends) but I’ll at least give the designers that the skill ceiling and the way you optimise the jobs (well SCH at least SGE doesn’t have optimisation) makes them feel unique despite how similar they are on a tooltip basis

But yes I probably shouldn’t have bought that up in a “how to level SGE to level 80” thread because it’s likely to misconstrue my point my bad on that one

[WaxSw]

Oh I’m not saying they are different in dungeon content mostly (though fairy totem healing is a godsend in the second boss of dead ends) but I’ll at least give the designers that the skill ceiling and the way you optimise the jobs (well SCH at least SGE doesn’t have optimisation) makes them feel unique despite how similar they are on a tooltip basis

But yes I probably shouldn’t have bought that up in a “how to level SGE to level 80” thread because it’s likely to misconstrue my point my bad on that one

I mean in dead ends they pretty much are past their lv80 objective so I don't take those situations into account.

I think you're heavily overestimating Sch depth, that job if it weren't for ED optimization (optimization that in case of mistakes usually the Sch does not fully pay the price as raids have 2 healers) is as braindead if not more than Sage and its currently in its most braindead state ever (long gone are the days of 150 potency ED, actual dps kit, 2 fairies or even the double weaving optimizations of Shb) and Sage does actually have some optimizations, mainly in the GCD department as it loses far more dps if it relies on its GCD heals but also unplanned movement or mistakes in the management of the movement lead to more loses than any other healer, phelgma optimizations are there also if you wanna exploit raid buffs and in AoE situations Sage has simply more tools to optimize (in fact Sch has the easiest Aoe of the game)

Not saying they are complex, they're post Shb healers after all but neither Sch is as big brain as you make it sound nor Sage is as braindead

[Supersnow845]

I mean in dead ends they pretty much are past their lv80 objective so I don't take those situations into account.

I think you're heavily overestimating Sch depth, that job if it weren't for ED optimization (optimization that in case of mistakes usually the Sch does not fully pay the price as raids have 2 healers) is as braindead if not more than Sage and its currently in its most braindead state ever (long gone are the days of 150 potency ED, actual dps kit, 2 fairies or even the double weaving optimizations of Shb) and Sage does actually have some optimizations, mainly in the GCD department as it loses far more dps if it relies on its GCD heals but also unplanned movement or mistakes in the management of the movement lead to more loses than any other healer, phelgma optimizations are there also if you wanna exploit raid buffs and in AoE situations Sage has simply more tools to optimize (in fact Sch has the easiest Aoe of the game)

Not saying they are complex, they're post Shb healers after all but neither Sch is as big brain as you make it sound nor Sage is as braindead

SCH’s DPS optimisation is long gone outside of energy drain but it still has healing optimisation because so many of its tools restrict the use of other tools, yeah I’m probably overestimating it but god damn if I’m reaching for any level of complexity of healers at this point

[WaxSw]

SCH’s DPS optimisation is long gone outside of energy drain but it still has healing optimisation because so many of its tools restrict the use of other tools, yeah I’m probably overestimating it but god damn if I’m reaching for any level of complexity of healers at this point

Yeah I feel you, at this point we'd take anything even if its unitentional. I just think that selling Sch as "complex healer that newbies shoudn't touch" slightly dilutes the complaints about how the job is in its most basic state ever (outside some X.0 versions).

[Supersnow845]

Yeah I feel you, at this point we'd take anything even if its unitentional. I just think that selling Sch as "complex healer that newbies shoudn't touch" slightly dilutes the complaints about how the job is in its most basic state ever (outside some X.0 versions).

Yeah that’s totally fair I used a bit of excessively strong language there I should go and edit that, SCH is in its most basic form at this point, though it’s still the one I’d least recommend for a new person first healer

[Amenara]

Similarly, leveling from 70-80 on such a different class is a new experience; I was considering unlocking and grinding out the Bozjan Southern Front, but any other tips you guys have for leveling Sage will be appreciated.

Do roulettes to get to 71, queue for Holminster Switch and prepare to get punched in the face with how... fun the pulls are before and after the first boss

Then repeat with the highest level dungeon till 80.

[Rilifane]

Alright. Thanks for the help, gents; not gonna lie, a bit nervous about running this job, but I'm certainly gonna give it a try.

Wish my friends were playing the game these days; would help reduce my new healer anxiety, but I guess it can't be helped. Thinking about running a few lower-level dungeons to ease myself in, then trying to grind Levelling Roulettes and the highest-level dungeons that I have.

Thanks for the tips, guys! Glad you're actually willing to help out, unlike Reddit and Discord.

Running a few low level dungeons is a good idea.
I'd personally recommend:
- Cutter's Cry (38), you have access to Kardia, Physis and Soteria, you also have EProg as a GCD heal.
Aim to minimize EProg usage by relying on Physis, Sorteria and Kardia auto heals as much as possible. You can also practice switching Kardia to someone else for a few GCDs if only one other person took damage

- Dusk Vigil (51), you now have access to Addersgall heals: Druochole, Kerachole and Ixochole
Practice using Kerachole for the 10% mitigation on mob pulls and healing the tank as necessary with Druo in addition to using Physis and Soteria. Keep your Addersgall stacks running, don't sit on 3 stacks and wait for emergencies. Practice spreading them out, e.g. Kera at the start of the pull so your 3rd stack can recover again and Physis, Soteria and Druo once the tank dropped despite Physis and Kardia heals. Every second you sit on 3 stacks during a pull, you waste MP and free healing. Ixo is mainly for boss aoes if the party really needs healing but Physis is down.

- Sirensong Sea (61), you have also access to Physis II and Taurochole.
Practice snapshotting the heal buff from Physis II for additional healing from Druo/ Tauro, this requires you to use Physis II when the tank already suffered an HP loss. Practice rotating Kera and Tauro for ideally constant 10% mitigation on the tank.

This would be the short route for practicing, of course you can also do a seperate dungeon for every new heal ability you get.
Always keep in mind that even if an ability aoe heals, it doesn't mean it shouldn't/ can't be used for tank healing; it's free healing, it should be used. The only exception is Ixochole as it competes with 1 Addersgall stack with Tauro/ Druo while healing less per target.

Another rule of thumb is that 2min cooldowns are up every 2nd pull with how most tanks pull while every 60s or below cooldown is up every pull. So use Physis liberally. Tauro can and should be used every pull.
Bosses are the easiest to heal, don't hold your resources for them; it's the big pulls that require most tank healing.
Practice spreading your resources evenly without sitting on cooldowns, don't use 4 abilities at once and then desperately EProg spam. Haima + Kera is almost like a tank invuln with a whooping 1800 potency auto shield, no need to use anything on top of that.
And throw some EProgs while the tank is pulling so they don't start with 30% HP once standing still. But if someone dies, so be it. It's not the end of the world, you have the right to practice and make mistakes along the way.

And don't be scared to try healer, it's indeed the easiest role; it just looks difficult from the outside. Pretty much everything we said here are already extremely good habits that don't just aim to make everyone survive but also be efficient with it. So if you execute only part of that you'll already play way above of what I usually see in DF which is... EProg spam all day.
You would probably be entirely fine by just spamming EProg and occasionally remembering that OGCDs exist while using everything at once in full panic mode. But please don't