Summoner changes that should happen onto 7.0

[Supersnow845]

Maybe just maybe because a job that summons things that do an attack and then leave fits Summoner moreso than a poison mage.

I mean old SMN still summoned and controlled things, honestly actually having controllable summons feels more SMN esque than “glorified big spell”

SMN is as always a tactician with its summons made of complex webs of aether and I’d consider poison to be a perfect weapon for a tactician

[aveyond-dreams]

I mean old SMN still summoned and controlled things, honestly actually having controllable summons feels more SMN esque than “glorified big spell”

SMN is as always a tactician with its summons made of complex webs of aether and I’d consider poison to be a perfect weapon for a tactician

Please do not take my words out of context when they were clearly referring to previous Final Fantasy titles and not the FFXIV job which has suffered from 8 years of thematic confusion that they wrote lore around in order to try and justify its limited state.

[Supersnow845]

Please do not take my words out of context when they were clearly referring to previous Final Fantasy titles and not the FFXIV job which has suffered from 8 years of thematic confusion that they wrote lore around in order to try and justify its limited state.

I mean the lore of this game is the only lore that’s relevant, I couldn’t care less about the lore of ff8 or whatever random ff game supports your ideal version of SMN

14 SMN is (was) a tactician and poison magic fits that lore perfectly

[aveyond-dreams]

I mean the lore of this game is the only lore that’s relevant, I couldn’t care less about the lore of ff8 or whatever random ff game supports your ideal version of SMN

14 SMN is (was) a tactician and poison magic fits that lore perfectly

And now we’re talking about lore again after I had already said my piece as to how I disagree with how some people are using it to take Summoner in the poison mage direction. I was talking about gameplay in earlier titles. There are some basic things that should be consistent in terms of job gameplay and fantasy that weren’t respected in FFXIV’s Summoner, ultimately to the detriment of the class that resulted in the rework.

I think that the lore they wrote to justify the not-Warlock class of FFXIV was bad, and that this class deserved a far greater deal of respect to its source material than what FFXIV showed it from the beginning.

[Supersnow845]

And now we’re talking about lore again after I had already said my piece as to how I disagree with how some people are using it to take Summoner in the poison mage direction. I was talking about gameplay in earlier titles. There are some basic things that should be consistent in terms of job gameplay and fantasy that weren’t respected in FFXIV’s Summoner, ultimately to the detriment of the class that resulted in the rework.

I think that the lore they wrote to justify the not-Warlock class of FFXIV was bad, and that this class deserved a far greater deal of respect to its source material than what FFXIV showed it from the beginning.

Okay but the other ff titles are literally irrelevant, are you fuming that SGE is a gundam healer, what about that WHM lost its elemental focus, RDM’s healing is functionally useless. Few of the jobs really follow previous games and I don’t think they need to. 14 explains why it’s SMN was the way it is and I’m happy with that

[aveyond-dreams]

Okay but the other ff titles are literally irrelevant, are you fuming that SGE is a gundam healer, what about that WHM lost its elemental focus, RDM’s healing is functionally useless. Few of the jobs really follow previous games and I don’t think they need to. 14 explains why it’s SMN was the way it is and I’m happy with that

No. Because unlike Warlock era Summoner
Sage didn’t bring with it thematic confusion and retained the aspect of attacking and healing - the sole concession I will make on it is that keeping Alphinaud in that role will look out of place if and when this game ever returns to a traditional high fantasy setting.

Red Mage, a job that worked with all sorts of status effects back in FFXI could’ve also worked as a dot job and I would’ve gladly ceded it to the people who are into them. However, they managed to make a unique caster that was pretty well received without going that route.

In any case I am just as unlikely to convince you as you are unlikely to convince me on the merits of FFXIV Summoner’s lore. This is where we’ll agree to disagree on the matter, as it’s unlikely anything productive will come of further discussing this aspect of the job.

What we need now are meaningful solutions that are not reversions, and for the people who want them to go ask for Necromancer or Time Mage.

[fulminating]

Where are my sage summons? I demand nothing less than full mastery of black, white and summoning magic for it to be a true implementation.

Summoner had the same traits as older summoners, but adapted to fit the game. You used the appropriate summon for the situation- in this case ifrit for single target, titan for two(formerly tanking) and garuda for many. Since that’s the entirety of traditional summoner, mission successful. Rather depressingly current summoner - where you vomit crayons at the enemy with reason and rhyme having no say in the matter - is a far poorer interpretation of the job fantasy.

[Manamaru]

I almost didn't recognize you, aveyond.
The poison DOT discussion is something that getting rid of put the foot in the door for turning summons into vanishing dad simulator from people arguing semantics and being contrarian over "well the egis are DOT" and other such.
The main thing that Summoner is suffering from that was hastily stripped away is the synergy between egis/carbuncle and the summoner. Ordering whichever egi/carbuncle was out to continue applying damage, or skill while the summoner continues their stuff before summoning bahamut or phoenix. In alliance raids or elsewhere, a summoner used to be able to tell their egi/carbuncle to go attack other enemy while the summoner would do their thing. That back and forth being able to combine and tag team on enemies was what allowed that synergy to excel and show itself. The carbuncle was degraded into a crayon eating carbuncle looking at anyone with its beady eyes asking for the sweet release of death, and only serves as a sad reminder of the synergy it once had. Could it have been moved to OGCD instead of running alongside the main abilities to better have that tag team wombo combo ability? Of course.

But that's the hill on summoner's past iterations I'm willing to wipe for. And it is why the only smallest smidgen of hope of seeing that return of a tag-team synergy class would be something like Beast Tamer/Beast Master; they could make it restricted to join Blue Mage, and even make the monster allies re-targetable by enemies. I would suggest Squenix to play Shin Megami Tensei Imagine Online for more ideas on how to bring out that synergy, but the official severs have been shut down. But the likelyhood of seeing Beast Tamer/Beast Master is slim, and if so, would probably show up as an announcement for patch 9.3 or 10.3

[Shiroe]

It's really fucking dumb idea however to limit the one feature that makes a class not feel completely like a slow lobotomy to near level cap because muh lore.

yeah, imo the BIG problem is pre-90 gameplay, lv 50-80 are now real lobotomies.., those are level key points

... imo 90 isn't that bad, its just missing a last spice, like dots

(just hope SE doest go full tard when revamping smn, like making it harder to play than HW blm 6.0, with clunky pets again *wait, they are still clunkc when summoning them xD*..., and still having low dps or something)

[Supersnow845]

yeah, imo the BIG problem is pre-90 gameplay, lv 50-80 are now real lobotomies.., those are level key points

... imo 90 isn't that bad, its just missing a last spice, like dots

(just hope SE doest go full tard when revamping smn, like making it harder to play than HW blm 6.0, with clunky pets again *wait, they are still clunkc when summoning them xD*..., and still having low dps or something)

On the other hand literally the only advantage of current SMN is that it is absolutely cracked in 70 ultimates to the point you are actively griefing if you don’t bring one