Summoner changes that should happen onto 7.0

[aveyond-dreams]

You're not getting poison magic back on Summoner unless you somehow convince the people who now play the job to want it back. We don't. What we largely want is more abilities for new Summoner, not things from the past. You want dots and poison magic, then please ask for Necromancer or another dark-themed caster which this game is missing and would better fit that kit than Summoner.

The two identities this job was struggling with was divorced for a reason. A re-merging of them will absolutely cause me to drop the class in its entirety in favor of literally any of the other classes that do not suffer from this sort of thematic confusion.

[Supersnow845]

You're not getting poison magic back on Summoner unless you somehow convince the people who now play the job to want it back. We don't. What we largely want is more abilities for new Summoner, not things from the past. You want dots and poison magic, then please ask for Necromancer or another dark-themed caster which this game is missing and would better fit that kit than Summoner.

The two identities this job was struggling with was divorced for a reason. A re-merging of them will absolutely cause me to drop the class in its entirety in favor of literally any of the other classes that do not suffer from this sort of thematic confusion.

I mean the more of ACN has always centred on poisons and tactics, it’s why SCH used to be a DOT mage as well. I would rather they make current SMN more complex than go back to something imitating 5.0 SMN but let’s not act like there isn’t a developed lore reason why the ACN classes have always been poison mages

[Ayden]

What we usually get without a rework in 10 levels are

1. Upgrade of existing spells
2. Ability that grants something
3. New spell (usually 1)

It will be a bit of a stretch for them to give us 3 new primals - leviathan, ramuh and shiva in a single expansion. The current 3 primals are upgrade of their egis, and the addition of them was easier as the primals and their animations already existed in the game (HoH). In my opinion, we won't be getting the 3 new primals.

I can imagine they do some of the following:
1. Ruin Mastery V - Increases the potency of Ruin III and elemental rites.
2. Elemental Mastery II - Increases the potency of deathflare and elemental favors.
3. Enhanced Aetherflow - Increases the stack of aetherflows by 1
4. Radiant Aegis II - Orders Carbuncle to exexute Radiant Aegis II which creates a barrier around all party members
5. Enhanced Summon Phoenix - Upgrades Summon Phoenix to Summon Alexander.

The current 60sec smn rotation is pretty full. I'm not sure how they add new gcd spells without removing some of the existing ones. It will be boring if what we get are merely upgrades of the old ones. A 3rd demi which also only do 11111? <.<

[Kulve]

This talk of dots for whatever reasons keep going back to poison spells not even recognizing that we still have a dot spell. A dot spell thats got this weird relationship of being stripped from us, given to our pet, then given back to us in the form of Slipstream. And just because people are using the word DOTs doesn't always mean Bio/Miasma. FF does have elemental related dots; Burn, Rasp, Choke, that could be utilized in anyway that's more engaging with what we have now. Also anything and everything in this game can be considered a dot if we wanna pull out the meme table.

I don't care for dots myself. Never put much attention in Warlock when playing wow and never cared for it on SMN. But removing so much spells from us with nothing to replace them and then pet abilities taken away from lower levels and given back to us as player actions at 86, is pretty ridiculous this is applauded as a successful rework. Thematically? Sure. Design wise? This is the lowest bar in jobs we have in engagement.

[aveyond-dreams]

I’m not interested in lore at this point when people use it to excuse things like adding Bio and Miasma back to class while barring Shiva from being added as a summon spell for us - at this point it should have no bearing if it’s going to be used as a means to limit the summoner identity further while propping up arcanist, which should not be usurping Summoner.

Garuda’s dot that you don’t have to manage is one thing, fire and forget spells that do not define the whole of the job are fine. What we don’t need is to have a dot to manage when there’s better class design options available for Summoner, which has historically leaned more towards massive burst damage. Damage over time fundamentally does not fulfill the fantasy people are looking for in this job.

What should be explored right now are ways to make the trance spells and astral flow ability more unique between each summon, incorporating elder summons like Alexander and Odin, and leaving the past behind where it belongs.

[fulminating]

Nah the people who enjoy new summoner can go and enjoy white mage, black mage or one of the many existing physical ranged jobs. The people who enjoyed old summoner have nowhere to go and should have their job retuned to them. Or do I get to whinge at SE until they add flare, holy and bahamut to sage?

[Supersnow845]

This talk of dots for whatever reasons keep going back to poison spells not even recognizing that we still have a dot spell. A dot spell thats got this weird relationship of being stripped from us, given to our pet, then given back to us in the form of Slipstream. And just because people are using the word DOTs doesn't always mean Bio/Miasma. FF does have elemental related dots; Burn, Rasp, Choke, that could be utilized in anyway that's more engaging with what we have now. Also anything and everything in this game can be considered a dot if we wanna pull out the meme table.

I don't care for dots myself. Never put much attention in Warlock when playing wow and never cared for it on SMN. But removing so much spells from us with nothing to replace them and then pet abilities taken away from lower levels and given back to us as player actions at 86, is pretty ridiculous this is applauded as a successful rework. Thematically? Sure. Design wise? This is the lowest bar in jobs we have in engagement.

I mean I use poison to describe any DOT mage even if they have nothing to do with actual poison, if new SMN got dropsy, fracture, slipstream and choke I’d still call it a poison mage

Otherwise I totally agree removing mechanics that used to come with our CLASS and give them back at 86 is just shockingly bad game design

[aveyond-dreams]

Nah the people who enjoy new summoner can go and enjoy white mage, black mage or one of the many existing physical ranged jobs. The people who enjoyed old summoner have nowhere to go and should have their job retuned to them. Or do I get to whinge at SE until they add flare, holy and bahamut to sage?

It is understood you want a dot-based caster of some sort, and it has been explained to you several times why Summoner does not fit this identity very well and why jobs like Necromancer or Time Mage do. I encourage you to reflect on what you can do best to ensure your interests are best represented, but I don’t believe that continuing to involve yourself in attempts to revert Summoner back to its previous incarnation is an effective way to accomplish your goals.

[Supersnow845]

It is understood you want a dot-based caster of some sort, and it has been explained to you several times why Summoner does not fit this identity very well and why jobs like Necromancer or Time Mage do. I encourage you to reflect on what you can do best to ensure your interests are best represented, but I don’t believe that continuing to involve yourself in attempts to revert Summoner back to its previous incarnation is an effective way to accomplish your goals.

I mean by exactly the same argument why couldn’t the current iteration be the new job and old SMN left as the DOT mage, the FF series can barely agree on what a SMN is an even then 14 isn’t against going against established lore like SGE anyway

[aveyond-dreams]

I mean by exactly the same argument why couldn’t the current iteration be the new job and old SMN left as the DOT mage, the FF series can barely agree on what a SMN is an even then 14 isn’t against going against established lore like SGE anyway

Maybe just maybe because a job that summons things that do an attack and then leave fits Summoner moreso than a poison mage.