The feeling of beeing Home ...

[Larirawiel]

Wait, so because this is typical for the ancients, it's ok to do?

IT'S REJOINING TIME BOIS!!!! Let's rejoin some shards here people!

It is propably not OK to do so. But it is the way how the ancients solve problems. Venat is not different. I guess, she was socialized in the ancient society and she does not know other solutions. And the second thing is, she must act like this because we told her, that she will do it in the future. If she would decide not to do so then she would alter the present of the WoL. That is the reason why i do not like time traveling into the past. You can only lose doing it.


Cheers

[Striker44]

Any story is capable of being subject to questioning, analysis, and a variety of interpretations. The forums are indeed one of the lesser-used sites by the playerbase, but it is not the only place where in-depth discussions of the story are taking place. One thing that is certain is that there was not enough material to generate over 600 page threads during Stormblood, which is the only other expansion to have had a controversial reception by the community when it comes to story and writing.

Any story is subject to that - the issue comes more when people declare themselves the ultimate objective arbiters of what is "good" or "bad" rather than acknowledging that they're expressing opinions. I'll disagree that Stormblood was the "only" other expansion to have a controversial reception...honestly, the forums have had negativity like this about every expansion.

In terms of the "600 page thread" (I only know of one that exists), I see it as a matter of two things:

1.) Endwalker has the largest overall playerbase of any expansion. We have the most people actively playing the game during this xpac than during any other. When you have significantly more people playing, a larger pure number of them will make their way over to the forums (even if it's still just a minuscule % of players), which in turn means threads created here will likely be significantly larger.

2.) Endwalker is loved by many more people, particularly compared to Stormblood. An echo chamber of negativity can only sustain itself for so long on its own - it needs an injection of disagreement and debate to keep going. There's so many people who enjoy EW that, again, you find more of them making their way over here and offering their praise. It isn't 600 pages of negativity. Much of it is back-and-forth debating and, yes, trolling between people who were disappointed in EW and people who immensely enjoyed it. The main difference between EW and SB is that there are more people who found EW thoroughly enjoyable and are contributing to the discussion.

[Aneshda]

Endwalker was fantastic. The forums are a very small minority of complainers. The story is not questionable because you have that opinion. I know it is a shocker. This is a part of life you will have to come to grips with as you grow into maturity.

That's your opinion but not everyone has to share it.
If you liked Endwalker, then it's good for you.
Maybe SE just needs players like you and no more players criticizing the game.
How do you think a game should change, how should it grow?
When every player only praises SE in the highest tones for a rather poor story?
Imagine if all those who criticize the game were gone... how empty would this world be?

[Deveryn]

That's your opinion but not everyone has to share it.
If you liked Endwalker, then it's good for you.
Maybe SE just needs players like you and no more players criticizing the game.
How do you think a game should change, how should it grow?
When every player only praises SE in the highest tones for a rather poor story?

You could say the same about the negative commentary. Few if any of the negative comments actually address this idea of how to grow. It's just complaining for the sake of doing so.

[Aneshda]

Right now SE is not reading this all. They care only about Twitter, Reddit and other Social Media Plattfforms. Should this Forum not be their Number 1 Spot for everything that relates to this Game?

In every Liveletter Yoshi is reading the Chat, watching Twitter. God forbid those who dares to ask something about the Story of Endwalker. All those People get, is only a rolling eye and a bored moan from Yoshi.

Is this how this Game could grow or even change, to make it better? Think about it.

[Raoabolic]

Right now SE is not reading this all. They care only about Twitter, Reddit and other Social Media Plattfforms. Should this Forum not be their Number 1 Spot for everything that relates to this Game?

In every Liveletter Yoshi is reading the Chat, watching Twitter. God forbid those who dares to ask something about the Story of Endwalker. All those People get, is only a rolling eye and a bored moan from Yoshi.

Is this how this Game could grow or even change, to make it better? Think about it.

This person has the right attitude. It's obvious the devs are catering to the twitter/reddit/"influencers" so any suggestion would fall on deaf ears unless said people are on board on it as well. At this point, enjoy the descent of yet another MMO, lol.

[Theodric]

It's funny how desperate some posters are to counter this supposed 'minority' of players who have concerns about the direction of the game. In reality, I think they're so married to the game that they continue to see any feedback that isn't glowing praise as a personal attack. Interesting that we're supposedly such a minority but every thread that is even slightly critical of Endwalker is effectively camped by those with an apparent allergy to criticism of the game.

This person has the right attitude. It's obvious the devs are catering to the twitter/reddit/"influencers" so any suggestion would fall on deaf ears unless said people are on board on it as well. At this point, enjoy the descent of yet another MMO, lol.

Yep. It's a real shame but it's hard to ignore the unfortunate fact that the development team have shifted their target audience to the point where they're rarely willing to throw a bone in the direction of those they once sought to cater to directly. Then again, maybe creating an immersive and consistent game world was a lucky coincidence back in the day - limitations were even bigger back then which maybe meant more focus on making the game feel 'lived in' and 'consistent'.

[aveyond-dreams]

Indeed. It is extremely exhausting when you want to provide honest feedback only to be met by individuals who are dismissive on the basis of the poster’s tone, even when they bring up legitimate points or when they repeatedly fall back into the whole minority vs majority thing. At this point I think it is important for the playerbase to be as clear and direct as possible if this game is to see success in its future, rather than continue in its current trajectory which has seen both long term players like myself and newer players all but abandon FFXIV for lack of a well crafted conclusion to the story and/or lack of content.

[SturmChurro]

Yep. It's a real shame but it's hard to ignore the unfortunate fact that the development team have shifted their target audience to the point where they're rarely willing to throw a bone in the direction of those they once sought to cater to directly. Then again, maybe creating an immersive and consistent game world was a lucky coincidence back in the day - limitations were even bigger back then which maybe meant more focus on making the game feel 'lived in' and 'consistent'.

I don't think that's fully true. I do think is going on is that they are trying to focus on everybody, and everything suffers because of it. Storywise, they do seem to be focusing more and more towards fan service, with characters like G'raha Tia at the forefront.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Isn't that a bit presumptuous to say that someone isn't allowed to do something in their own story because in your own opinion they don't deserve that fate? Ala Mhigo, Rabanastre, Valnain, Doma, and Bozja weren't asking for their cities to be destroyed either.

Garlemald wasn't even destroyed by an outside force, they did it themselves across two civil wars. Emet-Selch himself said he set that up back when he was introduced and instead of naming a sensible person as heir, Varis names his psychopathic son so it wasn't a surprise what happened when he killed his own dad and at least 2 legions got upset enough about Zenos being leader and decided to invade their own city against a guy who doesn't care whether the city or the empire stands or not.


As far as the assets go, they've been recycling gear and monsters since ARR. This isn't new. There's also a 63 track Endwalker album that says it's not the same music.


The lopporits can die in a fire though.

Kindly stop pretending like there's ANY equivalence in this. Ala Mhigo, Rabanastre, Valnain, Doma and Bozja still exist as do considerable sums of their peoples. Garlemald's native territories are in ruins and are never coming back, and most of their people are dead. As you said, they were victims of Emet-Selch's "treachery" so you cannot honestly say they brought it on themselves either.

Any story is capable of being subject to questioning, analysis, and a variety of interpretations. The forums are indeed one of the lesser-used sites by the playerbase, but it is not the only place where in-depth discussions of the story are taking place. One thing that is certain is that there was not enough material to generate over 600 page threads during Stormblood, which is the only other expansion to have had a controversial reception by the community when it comes to story and writing.

That is indeed a poignant point, Aveyond. By all rights, it should raise questions about the current quality of the MMO that the latest greatest expansion is contentious enough to generate this much discourse when nearly no other compares.

Any story is subject to that - the issue comes more when people declare themselves the ultimate objective arbiters of what is "good" or "bad" rather than acknowledging that they're expressing opinions. I'll disagree that Stormblood was the "only" other expansion to have a controversial reception...honestly, the forums have had negativity like this about every expansion.

In terms of the "600 page thread" (I only know of one that exists), I see it as a matter of two things:

1.) Endwalker has the largest overall playerbase of any expansion. We have the most people actively playing the game during this xpac than during any other. When you have significantly more people playing, a larger pure number of them will make their way over to the forums (even if it's still just a minuscule % of players), which in turn means threads created here will likely be significantly larger.

2.) Endwalker is loved by many more people, particularly compared to Stormblood. An echo chamber of negativity can only sustain itself for so long on its own - it needs an injection of disagreement and debate to keep going. There's so many people who enjoy EW that, again, you find more of them making their way over here and offering their praise. It isn't 600 pages of negativity. Much of it is back-and-forth debating and, yes, trolling between people who were disappointed in EW and people who immensely enjoyed it. The main difference between EW and SB is that there are more people who found EW thoroughly enjoyable and are contributing to the discussion.

Once again, I'm gonna have to humbly request that you cite that claim of yours Striker. I'd like to see some examples, in AD VERBATIM of any of us ever saying that we were the, and I quote: "Ultimate Arbiters of what is good or bad". Unless you can prove anyone ever said such things, I think you may wish to consider ceasing such slanderous insinuations. I believe it is less that we need to state everything we ever say is an opinion, and more that you Striker and certain others need to start considering that what we say is our opinion rather than believing we think we are objectively right about everything we say. As it stands, it feels more to me like some of you are seeing us in the worst possible light from the get go and it's tainting your judgment of us which ought to remain unbiased.

It's funny how desperate some posters are to counter this supposed 'minority' of players who have concerns about the direction of the game. In reality, I think they're so married to the game that they continue to see any feedback that isn't glowing praise as a personal attack. Interesting that we're supposedly such a minority but every thread that is even slightly critical of Endwalker is effectively camped by those with an apparent allergy to criticism of the game.



Yep. It's a real shame but it's hard to ignore the unfortunate fact that the development team have shifted their target audience to the point where they're rarely willing to throw a bone in the direction of those they once sought to cater to directly. Then again, maybe creating an immersive and consistent game world was a lucky coincidence back in the day - limitations were even bigger back then which maybe meant more focus on making the game feel 'lived in' and 'consistent'.

Indeed. You'd think that if we were such an insignificant "always negative minority" they'd possess no motive to combat us so fiercely.

Curious indeed.....

There is a difference between having concerns and flat out being rude or being a naysayer that thinks the game does nothing right. Otherwise, the entire point of a forum is debate.

Tone is everything. It's awful to imagine the developers going to a fanfest and having people say in person some of the things I have read on these forums that have been so rude.

Once again, none of us have ever said such things. What we have stated is that we believe many things are of much less quality than they were before. That Endwalker is an overall drop in quality in many respects is something many of us who are critical of it believe. However, very few of us have stated we believe it gets nothing right.