SGE was designed to be the "dpsing healer" but sadly failed at it.

[Supersnow845]

If only we had some hard data and not "i see"...

Oh. We do.



SCH comps simply have triple the clears. Whatever you might "see", SGE is truly a meme in that fight.

SCH continues to be excessively strong, tale as old as time haha, I do think people really sleep on SCH+SGE but that’s also because how terribly this shield regen healer split was implemented

[Mortex]

SCH continues to be excessively strong, tale as old as time haha, I do think people really sleep on SCH+SGE but that’s also because how terribly this shield regen healer split was implemented

I do think in dsr double shield healer is still insane, just because they fire so many one shot mechanics at you having all the time at least 20 % dmg reduce is a good deal.

[Supersnow845]

I do think in dsr double shield healer is still insane, just because they fire so many one shot mechanics at you having all the time at least 20 % dmg reduce is a good deal.

Double shield healer is about every piece of content is cracked because mitigation is always incredibly important and the shield healers alone can stack 45% (less because of reducing returns but eh) without even touching their oGCD shields or SCH’s frankly broken spreadlo

I honestly don’t see a point in PF distinction except maybe that AST WHM is a weak combo but all this artificial split gave up was the false assumption that SCH/SGE isn’t like the second best combination in any fight outside of DSR

[Liam_Harper]

I mean clip mage in the form it was in was bad, clip mage with 20 second DPS neutral lily’s would have been actually interesting, sure it’s not BLM level but at least it gives us something interesting within the boring as hell frame of the healers we currently have

Personally I'd still see it as terrible game design. Clip mage can burn in a fire and limping around a platform felt bad. The problem with lilies to move is that it mainly works because content hits like a wet noodle, but if you ever come across a fight that demands high healing, you end up with your mobility cut. BLM on the other hand gets more than 3 weaves a minute that synergize with their toolkit and doesn't sacrifice them when the boss hits harder.

For WHM to go back to 2.5s casts, it would ideally get some weave tools and a dps kit that opened some weave windows if you played well.

As for lilies being excessive oGCD healing, every healer has this issue and the only way to fix it is for encounters to do more damage, more often.

[Supersnow845]

Personally I'd still see it as terrible game design. Clip mage can burn in a fire and limping around a platform felt bad. The problem with lilies to move is that it mainly works because content hits like a wet noodle, but if you ever come across a fight that demands high healing, you end up with your mobility cut. BLM on the other hand gets more than 3 weaves a minute that synergize with their toolkit and doesn't sacrifice them when the boss hits harder.

For WHM to go back to 2.5s casts, it would ideally get some weave tools and a dps kit that opened some weave windows if you played well.

As for lilies being excessive oGCD healing, every healer has this issue and the only way to fix it is for encounters to do more damage, more often.

I mean the “content hits like a wet noodle” seems like a core tenant of the game right now, idk I’m just trying to work within the confines of the horrid healer design the game gives us, I still wish the other three could be as well designed as SCH even if I don’t think SCH in its current form is even a tenth of the old SCH, but it’s a choice between current WHM and DPS neutral clip mage I’d pick clip mage

[Liam_Harper]

That's fair. I'd pick current WHM over ShB WHM simply because it flows better, but honestly both are terribly designed so it doesn't really matter.

It's sort of a shame with this game that we're down to compromises, rock bottom expectations and working with what we've got because it's the core of the game and unlikely to ever change. Honestly, I feel even a moderate healer rework is never going to happen. The news that AST changes are being moved an entire expansion has far worse implications than most people seem to realize. It shows that improving just 2 jobs out of 20 is too much work for the current dev team. Next expansion we'll get 2 more jobs added to the workload and the other 20 will all need new 90-100 abilities. There's no chance they'll suddenly find time to rework an entire role and get it right. Nor has their been any proof or hint of that being possible. On the other-hand we constantly get signs that it isn't possible.

I predict a few QoL changes but overall job design gradually getting worse and more bland over the years. This expansion has been a really bad sign.

[IceBlueNinja]

If only we had some hard data and not "i see"...

Oh. We do.



SCH comps simply have triple the clears. Whatever you might "see", SGE is truly a meme in that fight.

That is all you got? please see deceptus post for better information.

[IceBlueNinja]

As 'superior' as AST is, it's just an awful job to play IMO. You're forced to dogpile so much stuff into 2 minute burst windows and even then it still manages to feel massively unsatisfying somehow. Whilst if your the sort of person who picks a single job for all aspects of the game, it's just about the worst job possible.

Sage still has the illusion of being fresh, WHM is just WHM.

Exactly xd i agree

[IceBlueNinja]

Because they're easier to use. It's that simple.
WHM has always been the "easy, straightforward" healer. HP goes down, Lily (or the dreaded Medica II) goes brr. Job done, pat on the back.
SGE isn't far behind SCH and even surpasses it on 2 bosses except for the absolute top players but to surpass it you need to work more for the few % difference - beacon healing but dealing with fairy placement reset after Seraph/ Dissipation, spending a GCD on summoning it after death, AF heals being a dps loss, SS being 100 potency stronger but ground-targeted, only Broil slides & Swift as dps-neutral mobility, delay when using fairy skills back to back, flexible Aetherpact but comes with two weaves (unless you need to use a fairy skill to cancel it anyway) and delay, dps partly dependant on party burst alignment.

And AST ... let's not even start.
AST is strong but a huge mess of unsatisfying bloat with buttons like glorified Lucid Dream, split-for-no-reason Draw/ Play & MA & Crown Play and "feels bad" MA and we're back again to having to use LS during burst like before LS change in ShB. Now AST is the least mobile healer because SCH at least has Ruin II even if it's a dps loss.

Very true I agree

[Liam_Harper]

That is all you got? please see deceptus post for better information.

They're right though. SCH is simply superior in Ultimate.

In Ultimate, mitigation is extremely important and Spreadlo is the strongest shield in the game. That's a massive advantage in a 18+ minute fight full of "mitigate or die" mechanics. There are also minor details like Succor being a little stronger, Emergency tactics not being rubbish like Pepsis, Fey Illumination and Expedient.

SGE is fine and can clear Ultimates. SGE is also perfectly fine in Savage. SGE and SCH is a great comp too.

But if you straight up compare SGE vs SCH in the hardest content, SCH is superior.