We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[Toutatis]

I mean if you honestly go into group content in a game where other people want to have fun as well and then provide absolutely no baseline you are just being selfish, it’s like this post says, we aren’t asking for much just a functional baseline you don’t need a shovel to get under

Who’s selfish really? The player who struggles or the player who just wants to be done with the story mode dungeon as quickly as possible and who doesn’t tolerate that some people may have less skill? Anyway, all I was saying, is you can rant all you want, it is not going to change the reality.

[Supersnow845]

Who’s selfish really? The player who struggles or the player who just wants to be done with the story mode dungeon as quickly as possible and who doesn’t tolerate that some people may have less skill? Anyway, all I was saying, is you can rant all you want, it is not going to change the reality.

I’ll again say the selfish one is the one who goes into group content and doesn’t know what mitigation is

Again this is asking for the literal baseline, you cannot physically be bad enough that you can’t haphazardly throw out some mitigation or throw out an aero once or twice, nobody is asking for zero GCD heals or no close calls, the bar in the floor you probably expended more energy typing this post than just pressing rampart in a pack of enemies

How is this being construed as “Elitist players don’t want to be helpful they just want everyone else to be as good as them”

[Toutatis]

I’ll again say the selfish one is the one who goes into group content and doesn’t know what mitigation is

Again this is asking for the literal baseline, you cannot physically be bad enough that you can’t haphazardly throw out some mitigation or throw out an aero once or twice, nobody is asking for zero GCD heals or no close calls, the bar in the floor you probably expended more energy typing this post than just pressing rampart in a pack of enemies

How is this being construed as “Elitist players don’t want to be helpful they just want everyone else to be as good as them”

I’d rather run a story mode dungeon with a tank who is pleasant but struggles (I’ve healed such tanks, everyone who heals did) than an impatient passive aggressive player. To me it’s the latter who ruins all the fun and creates undue tension. And yes, some people genuinely struggle and I don’t mind helping them.

How is this being construed as “Elitist players don’t want to be helpful they just want everyone else to be as good as them”

I never said that. You simply don’t seem to understand that it is normal to encounter bad players and the only way around is to make your pre-made party. Nothing you say or write will change that.

We don't lump those players with the ones who (don't) know they are bad AND refuses to try but blames their surrounding for their shortcoming.

Maybe you don’t but the other poster merely spoke of “competency”.

[Supersnow845]

I’d rather run a story mode dungeon with a tank who is pleasant but struggles (I’ve healed such tanks, everyone who heals did) than an impatient passive aggressive player. To me it’s the latter who ruins all the fun and creates undue tension. And yes, some people genuinely struggle and I don’t mind helping them.


I never said that. You simply don’t seem to understand that it is normal to encounter bad players and the only way around is to make your pre-made party. Nothing you say or write will change that.


Maybe you don’t but the other poster merely spoke of “competency”.

Yes and someone who struggles is not who I’m talking about I physically don’t know how to make that any clearer, it’s the same as the person who posts on this thread constantly going “yeah I’m the one who you are talking about” when anyone posts about bad players.

If you are trying to improve, are willing to take advice and adapt your play or even just explain that you struggle and you will do your best then that is totally fine, it’s the actively bad people that refuse to play properly, don’t know how to play and won’t accept any help or advice or who play classes totally wrong in ways that nobody would accidentally play wrong

Nobody is on here berating sprouts who actively want to improve I don’t know how else I can phrase it but that’s literally every comment on this post

[Toutatis]

or who play classes totally wrong in ways that nobody would accidentally play wrong

That’s the thing right there. FFXIV has millions of players and yes, this level of incompetence can be achieved in a totally innocent and accidental way. MSQ single player quests are just that easy and pretty much everyone can get to the end of EW.

There’s one player in particular that I’ve been trying to help and it is just not working but I know they try. Their dps in 600 gear has gone up from 1.5k to about 3k and that’s about as high as it gets for now. I now believe that the concepts of proper rotation, GCDs and OGCDs will forever remain foreign to them no matter what. They also die pretty often but that part is improving. They receive plenty of nasty and hurtful comments in dungeons though the dungeons end up being cleared with no group wipes. In the end, dungeons probably take an extra 5 minutes to complete. The best thing is to simply not have expectations, relax and make the better of it.

[Carin-Eri]

Yes and someone who struggles is not who I’m talking about I physically don’t know how to make that any clearer, it’s the same as the person who posts on this thread constantly going “yeah I’m the one who you are talking about” when anyone posts about bad players.

If you are trying to improve, are willing to take advice and adapt your play or even just explain that you struggle and you will do your best then that is totally fine, it’s the actively bad people that refuse to play properly, don’t know how to play and won’t accept any help or advice or who play classes totally wrong in ways that nobody would accidentally play wrong

Nobody is on here berating sprouts who actively want to improve I don’t know how else I can phrase it but that’s literally every comment on this post

I don't think I "constantly" say it, but nonetheless - what I said was a direct response to a comment saying "I know bad players who try their best and who put some real effort into it but remain bad no matter what", noting that said description describes me.

[VerdeLuck]

Nobody is on here berating sprouts who actively want to improve I don’t know how else I can phrase it but that’s literally every comment on this post

That's basically every encounter in-game I've seen where someone gives "advice" to another player. Calling people "selfish" for daring to not be as good as you at a video game definitely doesn't help your case either tbh.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Doesn't help that most of these posts have this passive aggressive language or tone in them that generally makes it hard to understand whether the posters are being genuine with what they say or not

[Lauront]

That's basically every encounter in-game I've seen where someone gives "advice" to another player. Calling people "selfish" for daring to not be as good as you at a video game definitely doesn't help your case either tbh.

Nobody is on here berating sprouts who actively want to improve I don’t know how else I can phrase it but that’s literally every comment on this post

BTW if they're violating the TOS by being rude or hostile to other players in-game, that's reportable. Now deal with what that poster is actually saying.

[VerdeLuck]

BTW if they're violating the TOS by being rude or hostile to other players in-game, that's reportable. Now deal with what that poster is actually saying.

I did, they're saying that it's "disrespectful" to be bad at the game. It's a ridiculous concept. It's a video game, people are learning to play it, they make mistakes. Just deal with it.