Should healers be designed like tanks?

[Jovakim]

My point is exactly that. (...) Then what does this change achieve?

Dps neutral GCD heals allows you to use the majority of your kit without feeling a sliver of guilt for losing dps. I didn't think I would enjoy playing WHM this expansion, but the dps neutral lillies just feel so much better to use now. It's still not the whole kit, but it's an improvement.
Removing some GCD heals (that would go more for WHM than the others) would leave space for extra dps spells to fill that void during downtime.

In every fight that you use GCD heals, you have the opportunity to optimize your heals to avoid the DPS loss from the GCD heals.

Are you talking about the moments when bosses get untargetable and such?

If you can heal prog without losing DPS, then what’s even the point of mechanics that do avoidable damage? The healer can outheal them without losing any DPS - so you don’t need to learn to avoid them.

Vulnerability up, damage down, and other debuffs are a thing you know? Damage down usually does its job to get a sloppy party to hit an enrage (although, imo it's the most boring debuff type). There are also one-hit kills, that's another form of damage down.

I don’t understand your point? Clemency (...)

Haha, I'll give you that one, I didn't explain that point at all (it sounded better in my head, I swear).

What I wanted to say is that PLD is pretty close to what healers could be, that is, a simple GCD heal accompanied with oGCD tools and a pretty decent damage rotation.
I also wanted to point out that a job that has only one GCD heal can be very powerful with that tool alone. Healers (WHM especially) just get too many of them and I believe they're just unnecessary bloat.

One last thing, you might have misunderstood me that I want every single GCD heal to be dps neutral. Not exactly, I would prefer some of them to be neutral especially if they're not going to get pruned. But if they do get pruned, they could stay as a dps loss to be worked around with.

[AmiableApkallu]

What I wanted to say is that PLD is pretty close to what healers could be, that is, a simple GCD heal accompanied with oGCD tools and a pretty decent damage rotation.
I also wanted to point out that a job that has only one GCD heal can be very powerful with that tool alone. Healers (WHM especially) just get too many of them and I believe they're just unnecessary bloat.

I'd argue that the DPS jobs are the poster children for bloat. They all have one task: Do damage. The only GCD buttons they need are:

- One GCD button for single target melee damage.
- One GCD button for single target ranged damage.
- One GCD button for melee AoE damage.
- One GCD button for ranged AoE damage.
- One GCD button for melee single target DoT.
- One GCD button for ranged single target DoT.
- One GCD button for melee AoE DoT.
- One GCD button for ranged AoE DoT.

(Not all jobs currently would have all 8 of these buttons.)

Replace damage/DoT with heal/HoT if you want to build a GCD healing kit.

Everything else can be moved into an oGCD ability, if necessary.

Amazingly, the healers are already fairly close to that GCD design philosophy. The DPS and tank jobs are the ones that are bloated and think you need, say, 3+ GCD buttons for single target damage.

[SargeTheSeagull]

I'd argue that the DPS jobs are the poster children for bloat. They all have one task: Do damage. The only GCD buttons they need are:

- One GCD button for single target melee damage.
- One GCD button for single target ranged damage.
- One GCD button for melee AoE damage.
- One GCD button for ranged AoE damage.
- One GCD button for melee single target DoT.
- One GCD button for ranged single target DoT.
- One GCD button for melee AoE DoT.
- One GCD button for ranged AoE DoT.

(Not all jobs currently would have all 8 of these buttons.)

Replace damage/DoT with heal/HoT if you want to build a GCD healing kit.

Everything else can be moved into an oGCD ability, if necessary.

Amazingly, the healers are already fairly close to that GCD design philosophy. The DPS and tank jobs are the ones that are bloated and think you need, say, 3+ GCD buttons for single target damage.

... What????

[shade62]

I'd argue that the DPS jobs are the poster children for bloat. They all have one task: Do damage. The only GCD buttons they need are:

- One GCD button for single target melee damage.
- One GCD button for single target ranged damage.
- One GCD button for melee AoE damage.
- One GCD button for ranged AoE damage.
- One GCD button for melee single target DoT.
- One GCD button for ranged single target DoT.
- One GCD button for melee AoE DoT.
- One GCD button for ranged AoE DoT.

(Not all jobs currently would have all 8 of these buttons.)

Replace damage/DoT with heal/HoT if you want to build a GCD healing kit.

Everything else can be moved into an oGCD ability, if necessary.

Amazingly, the healers are already fairly close to that GCD design philosophy. The DPS and tank jobs are the ones that are bloated and think you need, say, 3+ GCD buttons for single target damage.

I would weep for DPS and Tank mains that end up with this mangled corpse of a kit.

[NobleWinter]

I'd argue that the DPS jobs are the poster children for bloat. They all have one task: Do damage. The only GCD buttons they need are:

- One GCD button for single target melee damage.
- One GCD button for single target ranged damage.
- One GCD button for melee AoE damage.
- One GCD button for ranged AoE damage.
- One GCD button for melee single target DoT.
- One GCD button for ranged single target DoT.
- One GCD button for melee AoE DoT.
- One GCD button for ranged AoE DoT.

(Not all jobs currently would have all 8 of these buttons.)

Replace damage/DoT with heal/HoT if you want to build a GCD healing kit.

Everything else can be moved into an oGCD ability, if necessary.

Amazingly, the healers are already fairly close to that GCD design philosophy. The DPS and tank jobs are the ones that are bloated and think you need, say, 3+ GCD buttons for single target damage.

Some ideas are just bad and this is one of them.

[AmiableApkallu]

I would weep for DPS and Tank mains that end up with this mangled corpse of a kit.

Some ideas are just bad and this is one of them.

Welcome to the world of the Prevailing Opinion, where it's okay to make healers' healing kits less and less interesting, but heavens forbid you apply the same philosophy to DPS jobs and their DPS kits.

[VentVanitas]

Welcome to the world of the Prevailing Opinion, where it's okay to make healers' healing kits less and less interesting, but heavens forbid you apply the same philosophy to DPS jobs and their DPS kits.

Probably because making things less interesting is BAD?

please tell me you're just taking the piss. I refuse to believe that this is what you actually think.

[IDontPetLalas]

Probably because making things less interesting is BAD?

please tell me you're just taking the piss. I refuse to believe that this is what you actually think.

It did get your attention though, didn't it?

That is very close to how healer design looks, just replace the word 'damage" by "healing" and a good deal of that would apply. SE homogenized and simplified healers, and to some people this was bad. Crickets until it starts to touch other jobs.

[ThorneDynasty]

It did get your attention though, didn't it?

That is very close to how healer design looks, just replace the word 'damage" by "healing" and a good deal of that would apply. SE homogenized and simplified healers, and to some people this was bad. Crickets until it starts to touch other jobs.

Can we not with this childish "well those DPS/tank players didn't speak up for us so fuck them" otherization?

[shade62]

Welcome to the world of the Prevailing Opinion, where it's okay to make healers' healing kits less and less interesting, but heavens forbid you apply the same philosophy to DPS jobs and their DPS kits.

Sorry, but I refuse to believe it's THAT difficult to understand this theoretical DPS kit would be profoundly uninspired and boring as all hell to play. Sure, let's bring down DPS and Tanks to our level. Kick them in the nuts while you're at it, too, why don't you? I don't know, man, maybe the healing kits feel less interesting already because they don't put us in enough situations to require using every part of it. Maybe this game is designed around every role dealing damage. We shouldn't be dragging everyone else down with us. Healers should be elevated to Tank and DPS levels of enjoyment.

I don't think it's hard to understand that I don't want to see every job play the exact same like healers already do, and in the process, strip away what little nuances differentiate them and what others might find fun about their job.