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  1. #21
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
    Location
    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
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    3,029
    Character
    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    It's a trick of proximity, it's not actually related to the Pandaemonium story at all, you just think they are because they're put right next to identifiable parts of that story. They're actually Hildibrand.

    All of them, they're all Hildibrand.
    (5)

  2. #22
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by EaraGrace View Post
    Someone else pointed out that if Lahabrea is split between two beings, it would match Mateus from FF2, the original Pandaemoniums master. Might also explain why we seem to have conflicting character traits attributed to Lahabrea.
    In FFXII's lore, Lahabrea, the Abyssal Celebrant is the counterpart to Mateus, the Corrupt, and both are associated with the Pisces constellation (which is also on the corresponding Convocation stone in FFXIV). Lahabrea's Ascian glyph is derived from Mateus' glyph from FFXII. In fact, you can do this for all of the glyphs we've encountered so far, as has been observed by several people.

    Here's the Clan Centurio Primer on Mateus from FFXII:

    “Scion of darkness ruling and protecting those who live in the underworld, in opposition to Lahabrea, Abyssal Celebrant and scion of light.

    In the course of his rule, he submitted to avarice, and the darkness took his heart, transforming him until he was both evil and corrupt. Then in his cowardice did he bind a Goddess of the Demesne of Ice, and using her as a living shield, he challenged the gods.

    Defeated before their might, he fell screaming into the depths of hell, there to be imprisoned for eternity.”


    Whether they'll ever actually draw a link between the two sets of figures remains to be seen, but they keep teasing it with these off-hand references. Although I suspect that they'll remain unrelated, and the Lucavi will end up being referenced to the Void in some capacity if we ever end up in Corvos and its neighboring territories proper.
    (5)
    Last edited by Lyth; 07-29-2022 at 04:51 PM.

  3. #23
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
    Posts
    3,029
    Character
    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    Whether they'll ever actually draw a link between the two sets of figures remains to be seen, but they keep teasing it with these off-hand references. Although I suspect that they'll remain unrelated, and the Lucavi will end up being referenced to the Void in some capacity if we ever end up in Corvos and its neighboring territories proper.
    They've never drawn a link between any of the Ascians and any of their XII summon equivalents before (with the debatable exception of Elidibus and Zodiark, but Elidibus was deliberately added for that purpose), so I'd find it weird if they started now and consider it more coincidence than anything, but... well, Mateus was deliberately based on the Emperor from FFII; five of the XII summons are based on the final bosses of the first five Final Fantasies. Still probably coincidence, and there's little to read into that beyond 'that's neat', but hey.

    And to remind you, the XII summons have rocked up for Matsuno's content; the Rabanastre raid specifically had Mateus, in fact. The only ones that haven't appeared in either the Ivalice raids or Bozja are Chaos, Zalera, Zeromus, Exodus, and... well, Zodiark but there's reason for that one. All of them are horrific forms brought into being by the use of auracite, specifically auracite stemming from Ultima and in the lands previously occupied by Ivalice. So... yeah, they're pretty well-explained in-universe and not related to either Corvos or the Thirteenth; the Thirteenth also fell to an auracite-related tragedy, but by nature kinda can't be Ultima-linked because Ultima was from another dimension entirely (and that dimension can't be the Thirteenth, because I don't think Ultima would've survived that disaster and remained in the state we found her).
    (2)
    Last edited by Cleretic; 07-29-2022 at 05:21 PM.

  4. #24
    Player EaraGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ul’dah
    Posts
    822
    Character
    Eara Grace
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    They've never drawn a link between any of the Ascians and any of their XII summon equivalents before (with the debatable exception of Elidibus and Zodiark, but Elidibus was deliberately added for that purpose), so I'd find it weird if they started now and consider it more coincidence than anything, but... well, Mateus was deliberately based on the Emperor from FFII; five of the XII summons are based on the final bosses of the first five Final Fantasies. Still probably coincidence, and there's little to read into that beyond 'that's neat', but hey.
    The Ascian sigils are also direct references, being pulled from 12 as well. Lahabreas is just the bottom of Mateus’ symbol flipped upside down, so there’s at least some connection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    And to remind you, the XII summons have rocked up for Matsuno's content; the Rabanastre raid specifically had Mateus, in fact. The only ones that haven't appeared in either the Ivalice raids or Bozja are Chaos, Zalera, Zeromus, Exodus, and... well, Zodiark but there's reason for that one. All of them are horrific forms brought into being by the use of auracite, specifically auracite stemming from Ultima and in the lands previously occupied by Ivalice. So... yeah, they're pretty well-explained in-universe and not related to either Corvos or the Thirteenth; the Thirteenth also fell to an auracite-related tragedy, but by nature kinda can't be Ultima-linked because Ultima was from another dimension entirely (and that dimension can't be the Thirteenth, because I don't think Ultima would've survived that disaster and remained in the state we found her).
    Wouldn’t be the last time they reused a name tbf.
    (3)

  5. #25
    Player
    RicaRuin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Ishgard
    Posts
    2,671
    Character
    Rica Elak'ha
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by KageTokage View Post
    Given the theories that Lahabrea's real name is Hephaestus, perhaps there are some connections to be drawn from mythology as to who this other malicious-looking fellow could be?
    Well, in Greek Mythology, Hephaistos attempted to rape Athena, she wiped his... products of her thighs and threw the piece of wool she used down onto the Earth/Gaia, which resulted in impregnating Gaia with Erichthonios. Athenaeum adopted him later. (Greek Mythology is always such a wild ride!)
    Some sources claim Hephaistos had more offspring, so perhaps some crazed half-brother to Erichthonios?

    Personally, I lean towards a depiction of a younger Lahabrea or his 'darker side'.
    (8)

    I'm taking Lore way too seriously. And I'm not sorry about that.

  6. #26
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    ...
    Auracite was responsible for the downfall of the Thirteenth, as per Unukalhai. As you know, auracite is used to store primal energy. When the aspected aether from the contained primal leaks out, it causes aetheric corruption to its bearer. That's sounds roughly similar to the Lucavi from Ivalice, especially when both are using the same auracite terminology within FFXIV. Likewise, the IVth Imperial Legion which was originally stationed in Dalmasca was messing around with auracite from the Sect of Germonique to transform themselves into Lucavi (see: Gilbrisbert's Field Record). Corvos is literally just next door to where the Sect was based, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have influence there as well.

    Although the Triple Triad card for 4th-make Cuchulainn reports that its shared name with the renowned voidsent (that we fight in Void Arc) is 'believed to be no more than coincidence', I wouldn't be surprised if most of the Lucavi just turn out to be primals from the Thirteenth that ultimately corrupted their users into Voidsent during the lead in to the Flood of Darkness (the SMN questline also has a fire-based Belias-egi, but that may be unrelated).

    The Lemures are not Garlemald's only connection to the Void, either. The court mages defending Garlemald's hold over Ala Mhigo were practicing Void Magic as well, and transformed fallen soldiers into the Muud Suud, according to the associated Triple Triad card entry. Lots of dangling plot threads here, it's just a question of if anything is done with them.
    (2)
    Last edited by Lyth; 07-29-2022 at 06:36 PM.

  7. #27
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,093
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    Something I've been wondering is whether or not Themis was just being poetic when he referred to Pandemonium as a "fell beast" in his post-MSQ monologue and if maybe the name is in reference both to the facility and some manner of unpleasant creation sealed within its depths.

    Perhaps the previous Lahabrea was the one who was involved in the hemitheos business originally and ended up having to be sealed away in the depths after he took things too far.
    (1)
    Last edited by KageTokage; 07-29-2022 at 09:28 PM.

  8. #28
    Player
    Lurina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    334
    Character
    Floria Aerinus
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Lahabrea looks really old here. He must have been ancient to get to that point as an, uh, Ancient.

    His research is all about trying to find a way to resurrect people from the dead, or else create beings capable of resurrecting themselves, right? I could see him testing that sort of technology on himself and having his youth restored, but being corrupted because Toying With Powers Beyond Man's Ken or whatever. Or it could be a younger duplicate split off from him due to those experiments.
    (2)

  9. #29
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Interdimensional Rift
    Posts
    3,600
    Character
    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Hmm, the red hair is actually making me think of Id from Xenogears. Also Grahf.

    Perhaps they are both the same person, but he has become a Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde sort of entity after his experiments as others have alluded.

    For those unfamiliar with either:

    This guy


    Is also this guy


    (1)

    (Signature portrait by Amaipetisu)

    "I thought that my invincible power would hold the world captive, leaving me in a freedom undisturbed. Thus night and day I worked at the chain with huge fires and cruel hard strokes. When at last the work was done and the links were complete and unbreakable, I found that it held me in its grip." - Rabindranath Tagore

  10. #30
    Player SentioftheHoukai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Location
    Solitude in Sohr Khai. Hraesvelgr, shield me from these Scions.
    Posts
    445
    Character
    Nyx Deorum
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 64
    Quote Originally Posted by RicaRuin View Post
    Well, in Greek Mythology, Hephaistos attempted to rape Athena, she wiped his... products of her thighs and threw the piece of wool she used down onto the Earth/Gaia, which resulted in impregnating Gaia with Erichthonios. Athenaeum adopted him later. (Greek Mythology is always such a wild ride!)
    Some sources claim Hephaistos had more offspring, so perhaps some crazed half-brother to Erichthonios?

    Personally, I lean towards a depiction of a younger Lahabrea or his 'darker side'.
    ........

    The Greeks were f*cked up. All I'm gonna say.
    (2)

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