Ardbert's Party vs the Scions Analysis

[aveyond-dreams]

I know people like to defend complaints with this logic, but it only goes so far.

If you are generally enjoying the game and like the overall direction of it, but have issues with specific elements, it's fair to stick around and voice your hopes that the things you don't like will get fixed.

But if you're really unhappy with it over a long time, or the things you object to are core elements like where the writer wants to take the story, and the things you want changed are a matter of taste rather than inherent issues with the game... at some point I think you have to say "this game just isn't for me, and it would have to change at a fundamental level for me to like it, and there are other things that cater better to my taste".

Because asking for the story to not go down this route of "light heartedness" and a lack of character development isn't allowed? You know, like how things were in Heavensward? The expansion that sold must of us on this game long-term?

[Kaurhz]

It's almost as if there already existed a line of games where you can go experience a heavy focus on school living and slice of life content whereas Final Fantasy serves a different niche.

Oh, and I suppose you're one to tell everyone else what that niche is? For some reason, I don't think so, and given your perspective, I would daresay the developers say otherwise too.

That being said, if you want to tell other people the games they should play, then perhaps you should take your own words under advisement, hm?

[aveyond-dreams]

I have no problem saying that for players who value slice of life, college/school living, and modern aesthetics or elements that Persona games would be a good fit.

Just like how up until recently I would have readily recommended FFXIV as a high fantasy adventure game with a great story even if the protagonist faction was consistently lacking in various aspects. Now that they are being pushed onto us more along with out of place elements and the total absence of the previous compelling antagonist factions, this is no longer the case.

We need a return to form as soon as possible, 7.0 is far too long of a wait for this. 6.2 determines this game's future from gameplay to story, and I would like to see it be a successful patch after the controversial reception of both post-launch Endwalker and 6.1.

[Carin-Eri]

Ngl, kinda wish the Scions were all killed off at the end of EW so we could spend post-EW recovering and moving forward with the not-so main characters still around.

Imo, if were getting a brand new story and stuff in 7.0, should be a fresh slate with new companions.

Don't know about having them killed off, but I would enjoy the story having us accompany some of characters we've met on the journey but haven't really seen since we moved away from the areas that were relevant to them. Jullus for example, or Fordola.

[Iscah]

That scene cost nothing more than the time to code it. All cut scenes (outside of a few in ARR) are generated 'in game'. It's why Thancred has that wonky stutter when he climbs steps in Camp Drybone during at least two cut-scenes prior to your encounter with Ifrit.

This is just from observation, but I think there are two levels of cutscene, even though graphics-wise they both use the normal gameplay models: one is entirely in-game with the characters only doing standard emotes and the world looking however it looks in live gameplay, and the devs just have control over camera angles and music; and "real cutscenes" where the characters can be doing custom animations and dramatic things, and this may (I'm not certain) be the only type of cutscene where they can change weather or time of day.

I think this is what determines whether the cutscenes show up in the Unending Journey or not.

Somebody did have to put the time into animating Raha with his escaping hamburger. Maybe they budget for it from the start, maybe it's a "we have finished creating all the necessary animations for the story and have a spare week before the deadline, let's throw in some fun moments".

[LianaThorne]

I know people like to defend complaints with this logic, but it only goes so far.

If you are generally enjoying the game and like the overall direction of it, but have issues with specific elements, it's fair to stick around and voice your hopes that the things you don't like will get fixed.

But if you're really unhappy with it over a long time, or the things you object to are core elements like where the writer wants to take the story, and the things you want changed are a matter of taste rather than inherent issues with the game... at some point I think you have to say "this game just isn't for me, and it would have to change at a fundamental level for me to like it, and there are other things that cater better to my taste".

You can be generally satisfied with the way things are but still have complaints with story direction.....like...I really did not like Book 3 or 4 of Harry Potter and had doubts of where the story was heading but that didn't make me just drop Harry Potter as a whole, I still enjoyed Books 1 & 2. Plus, when Book 5 rolled around I was really happy with it and enjoyed the rest of the series.

Again, people are allowed to see issues in games, books, movies, etc. and continue to play, read or watch them. I don't remember any requirement that you have to worship something and see no wrong with it to still engage in things related to said something.

I swear it's like people take it as a personal attack when someone else sees flaws with something they enjoy. That doesn't invalidate your own enjoyment and if it does, that's entirely a you problem.

[LianaThorne]

Don't know about having them killed off, but I would enjoy the story having us accompany some of characters we've met on the journey but haven't really seen since we moved away from the areas that were relevant to them. Jullus for example, or Fordola.

Nope, kill em off and make it dramatic like the Red Wedding. I'd rather be shocked to my core than be able to predict what's going to happen because people choose to play it safe.

Otherwise I agree. Definitely should spend more time with the non-major characters and develop them.

[CrownySuccubus]

I have no problem saying that for players who value slice of life, college/school living, and modern aesthetics or elements that Persona games would be a good fit.

This is still a disingenuous strawman. Nobody is attending PE classes, going out to school dances, or playing videogames in their dorm. Eating a burger for 15 seconds in one scene does not equivocate "slice of life", no matter how many times you try to sneak the phrasing in.

I swear it's like people take it as a personal attack when someone else sees flaws with something they enjoy. That doesn't invalidate your own enjoyment and if it does, that's entirely a you problem.

Except Aveyond, Theodric, Rulakir, et al, actually DO try to invalidate other opinions, whether by claiming that these observations are factual criticisms, that the game overall is suffering from them, that players will leave because of them, or calling the things they don't like "for kids" and that anyone who did like them are shallow or aren't paying enough critical attention.

So at that point, it's just fine to take it as a personal attack.

[Avidria]

Ngl, kinda wish the Scions were all killed off at the end of EW so we could spend post-EW recovering and moving forward with the not-so main characters still around.

Imo, if were getting a brand new story and stuff in 7.0, should be a fresh slate with new companions.

I mean, I'm gonna be real here and say I don't think I'd trust that just killing them off and starting over would actually be well handled and compelling enough for me to be on board with it, and that's not just because I actually like most of the Scions. I've dropped shows and books for doing such a major cast change because at that point it's almost like picking up an entirely new show or book. And in my experience the handling of that transition makes or breaks the rest of the story.

Frankly I think SE has kind of shot themselves in the foot in a few days, mostly by just... Not developing many of the side characters we do have. Like, there are a bunch of Scions that kind of just vibe around the Waking Sands that imo are fun characters in their own right, but a huge chunk of their personality and presence only exists if you go out of your way to talk to them in between every MSQ quest. Like, the cast of characters we've interacted with is massive, and imo you kind of see the pros and cons of that in that big "everyone gather resources" cutscene in Endwalker. It was cool to see all the friends/allies/assorted acquaintances working together like that, and callback to past quests, but there were so many people that none of them got all that much time to do much of anything or stand out at all.

[Iscah]

Because asking for the story to not go down this route of "light heartedness" and a lack of character development isn't allowed? You know, like how things were in Heavensward? The expansion that sold must of us on this game long-term?

The story has always been "down the route of light-heartedness" amidst its gloomier moments.

You know what sticks out to me from Heavensward, amid the serious moments? The way the characters had little establishing moments. The looks Artoirel and Emmanellain give when Edmont says you'll be assisting them (disgusted and delighted, respectively). Estinien ready to strangle a moogle or two while Ysayle coos over their fluffiness. Quiet moments at the campfire.