To Tanks Who only pull One Mob at a Time......

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

I know when I started playing FFXIV, I did single pulling on Sastasha on my first time because I did not know how dungeons were like in the game (I played WoW WotLK only) but after realizing that Tanking is super simple and you have the tools to be hard to kill, it immediately clicked that to get the best out of the fights is to take more.

What baffles me is that it never clicked to most people and they still tip toe at later levels even with a bigger range of Mit tools at their disposal. I mean jesus people did you use training wheels until your mid teens? Why are you still playing like you are still on your training wheels in lvl70+ content?

[leanansi]

Honestly, I would rather tanks just pull what they/the party can handle, even if it's one group. In most instances pulling wall to wall is totally fine. I've literally never died to a mob in any level 90 dungeon, for example. There are some dungeons, like Hollminster Switch in my experience, that seem to challenge a lot of people. Even then, I've had tons of runs that went fine in there pulling wall to wall. So, if the tank feels like they can get it done with the party they're in and they've done it many times before, go for it. If they feel uncertain or are new to that instance, I would rather they pull smaller. It's way more inconvenient to wipe than to just do smaller pulls, imo. The tanks that take on more than they can handle twice in a row are the ones that I really dread, not the ones that pull small. I've had tanks die to three or four mobs but never just consider going smaller and it's such an unpleasant experience. It drags on forever and the time spent running back through the half empty dungeon is much more boring than longer time spent fighting smaller groups. But as long as the pulls are a manageable size for the party you have, I'm basically fine with whatever.

To be honest, though, I use the duty finder for roulettes and general leveling very often and I rarely have terrible experiences. I feel like sometimes people exaggerate how often things go completely sideways in there.

[Merrigan]

This would be fine if the bar for tanking wasn't subterranean. Tanking is so easy I can explain how to do it for every tank right now. Put stance on, pop sprint before aggroing the first mob pack (optional), reach the wall, grabbing mobs on the way, and apply arm's length + reprisal. After 10 seconds, apply your 30% mitigation. After 10 seconds, apply your 10% mitigation. After 5 seconds, apply rampart. Use AoE abilities in between. That rotation is good enough to get you through a majority of w2w pulls without engaging with anything else and just relying on your healer to pick up the slack. It's not an issue of "Why aren't they as good as me?!" It's an issue of, "The developers have been intentionally making this role easier and easier for the last 2 expansions, how are we still having these issues?"

This post is a typical example of "why simplifying a job was never a good idea, and why over-simplification makes you less lax about mistakes".

That said: you are playing with humans. Not bots. That's why we keep having these problems, and there's nothing else to understand. Agree to be a little flexible. Being a good player isn't just, as you just pointed out, knowing how to organise your mitigations. That part is simple. What is less simple is adapting to players you have just met. The tank is more of an optimizer than a common punching bag (which is why I actually find your description very poor).

On a personal note, the ones that piss me off the most are the people who are so buried in their "wall-to-wall" mentality that they end up causing wipes. In fact, some are so convinced of this religion that they don't even ask the question "why is the tank slowing down here". Small reference to a group I met yesterday, on my alt, where a dps thought it was a good idea to pull more when I had no CDs left. The same dps, of course, who was doing mold damage and forcing me to slam more on each pack, because the mobs weren't melting fast enough.

I'm seeing more and more of that these days - and they're rarely the best players. Which doesn't surprise me at all. They're also the most common, because in reality players who pull a pack by a pack are rare in the higher levels, despite all the complaining about it.

[Stanazolol]

Honestly, I would rather tanks just pull what they/the party can handle, even if it's one group. In most instances pulling wall to wall is totally fine. I've literally never died to a mob in any level 90 dungeon, for example. There are some dungeons, like Hollminster Switch in my experience, that seem to challenge a lot of people. Even then, I've had tons of runs that went fine in there pulling wall to wall. So, if the tank feels like they can get it done with the party they're in and they've done it many times before, go for it. If they feel uncertain or are new to that instance, I would rather they pull smaller. It's way more inconvenient to wipe than to just do smaller pulls, imo. The tanks that take on more than they can handle twice in a row are the ones that I really dread, not the ones that pull small. I've had tanks die to three or four mobs but never just consider going smaller and it's such an unpleasant experience. It drags on forever and the time spent running back through the half empty dungeon is much more boring than longer time spent fighting smaller groups. But as long as the pulls are a manageable size for the party you have, I'm basically fine with whatever.

To be honest, though, I use the duty finder for roulettes and general leveling very often and I rarely have terrible experiences. I feel like sometimes people exaggerate how often things go completely sideways in there.

Even in holminster switch ill pull wall to wall, you can still clear with newbies. Might need a holmgang or two, but thats what its there for.

Ill default pull wall to wall always unless im asked not to, and in that case im fine with it. If youre going to play an mmo, you need to accommodate other players, and of it aggravates you too much, talk your way out of it or leave. Thats just part of it.

[game_enjoyer]

This post is a typical example of "why simplifying a job was never a good idea, and why over-simplification makes you less lax about mistakes".

That said: you are playing with humans. Not bots. That's why we keep having these problems, and there's nothing else to understand. Agree to be a little flexible. Being a good player isn't just, as you just pointed out, knowing how to organise your mitigations. That part is simple. What is less simple is adapting to players you have just met. The tank is more of an optimizer than a common punching bag (which is why I actually find your description very poor).

On a personal note, the ones that piss me off the most are the people who are so buried in their "wall-to-wall" mentality that they end up causing wipes. In fact, some are so convinced of this religion that they don't even ask the question "why is the tank slowing down here". Small reference to a group I met yesterday, on my alt, where a dps thought it was a good idea to pull more when I had no CDs left. The same dps, of course, who was doing mold damage and forcing me to slam more on each pack, because the mobs weren't melting fast enough.

I'm seeing more and more of that these days - and they're rarely the best players. Which doesn't surprise me at all. They're also the most common, because in reality players who pull a pack by a pack are rare in the higher levels, despite all the complaining about it.

if u can't pull w2w post 50 that's just u being bad and nothing to do with anyone else

[Cilia]

I tend to be flexible with how I run dungeons because you never know what you're going to get.

As a rule of thumb, especially during X.0, the first time I run a dungeon I only pull one trash pack at a time to make sure there's no nasty surprises waiting. Just like how you need to have some patience fighting new Trial / Raid bosses and clearing Alliance raids, taking things slow and steady on a first run is a prudent course of action.

Past that, it's important to be flexible. Sometimes you get a party that's not so skilled or geared, and wall to wall pulls aren't the smartest thing to do. (I got Aitiascope the other day; one DPS had mid-leveling gear, the other wasn't in anything better than Cryptlurker.) Just roll with the punches.

[Izar_Chillen]

The problem with large pulls that take a while to burn down isn't MP so much as running out of CDs. Especially if we already had to use some when the tank stopped to equalize things. I think the person you quoted doesn't realize that with small packs, less CDs are used and usually less MP because we don't have to heal that much unless the team is struggling on the smaller pulls. I think my worst time as a healer is when a tank pulls big, dps is very low, and both the tank and I run out of CDs. It's better in my experience to pull small in those situations. If there's the trifecta of a squishy tank, even moreso.

I think thats why there are barriers/ gates in the games dungeon design now . Its the perfect amount you can pull that works well with cooldowns for the majority. Its not over the top that "most" people cant handle and it stops over zealous tanks over pulling because they expect anyone they encounter to be used to it , it reduces the cooldown burn out from under performing dps from making fights go on to long and reduces careless healers running out of mana that over heal when they didnt need to .



typically



Thats not to say none of the above ever happen stil, but Id imagine that they looked at average performances and the min maxers and took a design choice to allow 2-3 packs at most before a gate blocks any further traversal until they are killed , and of course its much easier to decide on the HP pools and damage output when they know the max that can be in combat with gating.



I like pulling big on my warrior , the blood whetting and crit aoe damage style almost calls for it as small pulls on a warrior kills a tonne of its performance but if there were no gates in dungeons these days it almost certainly would cause issues with under performers or those that dont care if people cant handle massive pulls and go ahead anyways regardless of others , both are bad situations on the normal content