I don't like FFXIV's community

[Liam_Harper]

I also dislike XIVs community but not for the same reasons. I think the overly heavyhanded ToS goes a long way to essentially scare everybody into being nice (note: passive aggressive) to each other, but I hate the forced "positivity".

I find it creates a false positivity on the surface, but a sort of stifling passive aggressive toxicity behind it. We seem to have a strong casual/veteran divide in ff14 where both sides strongly dislike each other but have to pretend everything is fine.

-Some of the very casual players have taken the devs trying to cater to them as a sign that the game is casual only, playing badly is correct and that they're the most important audience. This has bred an entitled gloating self-importance where veteran players are looked down on, accomplishments are a bad thing, having everything handed over is an expectation and the bare minimum effort is put into content. They look down on players who want a challenge. This is their game. Quit and get lost if you don't like it.

-On the flip side the veteran players who are stifled, banned from even mentioning performance and constantly have content ripped away from them have a deep bottled away resentment. They hate that they're meant to carry the players who not only put in no effort, but also ridicule them as tryhards and elitists for even trying. This ends up with people being jumped on and bombarded for saying things like "I don't like dps on healers" or "I don't like wall pulls" and players having much less patience for inexperienced players.

Then you have things like Hunts, where griefing is unaddressed because "it isn't intended to share hunts, so we'll just ignore this festering community conflict and do nothing", extreme cases of stalking that goes unaddressed because they aren't saying your dps sucks so doesn't break ToS, bots everywhere, the Housing community being a cesspit and hounding people who haven't decorated their house enough because players are so frustrated trying to get one, Raiding PF's just disbanding after 2 wipes because the group can see the problem player who isn't ready for that content at all but can't say or do a thing about it and so on.

WoW was indeed toxic, but one difference I found in WoW was it was just immature straightforward rudeness. The main issue there was the GM's didn't give the children a much needed slap on the wrist from time to time, but it was easy to ignore or disprove. FF14's toxicity is much more complicated and ingrained and almost impossible to counter because on the surface it's always calculated to stay just within ToS. In some ways I dislike that even more.

[DPZ2]

We seem to have a strong casual/veteran divide in ff14 .

When I read the word "veteran" I do not immediately think "not casual".

When I read the word "casual" I do not immediately think "inexperienced".

As a veteran of nearly 8 years standing myself, I would still consider myself a casual player, in that I play when I want as the mood takes me, rather than every day. I do not bother with combat add-ons to "get better". I'm not competing with other players. I know my limits. I enjoy the non-combat play, the story line, the players I come in contact with ...

The only place I find a divide in this game is on the forums. There, self-proclaimed "veterans" bash "casuals" (and vice versa), ignoring the fact that those definitions are decidedly vague hand-waving around one solid fact: the people who are most competent at combat play in this game appear to be of the opinion that only they can have an opinion on what is, and what is not, worthy of comment. All others are incompetent in combat play and, therefore, to be ignored or cast as the rather cliched White Knight.

All conversations are cast through this lens, thus the perceived divide.

[Striker44]

snip

I feel like this is a strange comparison to make. Veteran and casual aren't opposites of each other. For example, I definitely consider myself a "casual" player given the amount of time I play in a day/week and the fact that my group content is almost exclusively normal DF runs and doing things with my FC. On the other hand, I've been playing for about 7 years now and can answer pretty much any question people have about how the game works or the story, so I would also definitely consider myself a "veteran" of the game.

And as an experienced player, I have absolutely no problem being the "heavy" and helping carry a DF group. In fact, that just tends to make it more fun. I also haven't seen anything I would describe as encouraging that "playing badly is correct" in any way, shape, or form. What I have seen is a lot of more experienced players in DF being supportive of newer players, and the rare occasions I see someone get toxic, there's almost universal shutting it down, not just silence.

WoW, on the other hand...holy cow, go in a regular LFD/LFR of any sort and I'd end up surprised if someone didn't make a negative or toxic comment during the run. It was just disgusting to see.