Chainsaw's Instant Kill should be removed

[Lustre]

I like throwing them out when I'm about to die. Always funny to see the other person go from 100 to 0 while I'm at 10% hp. Truly the peak of balancing

[ElHeggunte]

Doesn’t matter how rare it is. Any OHKO ability with zero counterplay is poor design. There are ways to deal with NIN and SAM. For MCH, you just flat out die or you don’t, with nothing you can do about it aside from being clairvoyant. The OHKO should be removed and replaced with something else.

[Issaella]

You forgot Mch LB ;p
Wildfire + LB combo is about 48k damage.
Mch need something else than chainsaw.

Yeah, if you use a time machine maybe?

I was grinding out my 10 wins for the pony on my alt this week and while I don't have the exact numbers, Spite now hits for about 30% of a melee DPS's health bar (used to be > 50%). For a tank it's even less. Reassemble + Drill or AA maybe hit for 25%. And Wildfire now hits for 20% if you get all your hits in. So lets say you were able to chain all that together: maxed Wildfire into Reassemble+AA, then followed by Spite. That's still not enough to finish off melee DPS on your own, let alone a tank. Now you have blown all your cooldowns, at which point they can pick you apart at their leisure.

As others have said pretty much every melee DPS can do more damage in the same number of button presses. And they have defensives and movement abilities that MCH lack entirely. Buff the insta-kill on Saw based on distance. Make melee DPS at least think about diving MCH for a free kill instead of having zero risk.

Wouldn't this better be a reason to convert some of Chainsaw's potency (literal and/or what's afforded by the rare, random instakill) towards making it immune to passive DR, or at least otherwise evening out its damage to melee and tanks?

Bolded for emphasis.

That would require thought and nuance. The PvP balance team appears only capable of blanket across-the-board nerfs/buffs. Like I've said previously the balance team consists of a monkey banging on a keyboard with a coconut. You can't expect thought-out indiv buffs and nerfs.

[AnnRam]

As others have said pretty much every melee DPS can do more DPS in the same number of button presses. And they have defensives and movement abilities that MCH lack entirely. Buff the insta-kill on Saw based on distance. Make melee DPS at least think about diving MCH instead of having zero risk.

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Maybe because Melee jobs have to be in Melee range in order to do anything. Speaking in terms of FL where zerging occurs more often than CC you aren't playing alone so engaging Melee jobs at Melee range its entirely your fault.

And they have defensives and movement abilities that MCH lack entirely. Buff the insta-kill on Saw based on distance. Make melee DPS at least think about diving MCH instead of having zero risk.
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-Scattergun (10 yalm knockback)
-Bishop Autoturret (increase target damage taken by 10% and gives you a barrier for 6000 potency)
-Analysis Bioblaster ( 75%heavy)
-Air Anchor (Stun or Bind for 3 seconds)

Basically you have almost the entire All-cc-kit in one.

Are we playing the same job? diving MCH with remotely high BH its throwing yourself in to the sharks unless the MCH its a bot who stands idle while spamming Heat blast only.

[Leathium]

If you get Odin'd by a SAM, it is *absolutely* a you problem. Kuzushi debuff only lasts 3 sec, and the SAM can't LB if bound, stunned, silenced, etc.

Phantom Rush is the last GCD of a 7 GCD combo, and the timer only lasts 10 sec. If you let the MNK line up everything like that, you fucked up.

MCH is fine. You have a lot of work to do improving how you play it, but it's fine. Also, I'd recommend not using FL as the basis for balance whines, because FL is not and never has been balanced.

-In paper yes you can use your wild fantasy and be like hmm a 2 sec silence or a stun can stop a sam LB from "odin'ing" my health, right good luck with that 0.1 inhuman reaction because being LBed by a sam in higher ranks especially in crystal ranks is very common and there are even 2-3 players at time can be wiped trying to CC kill that sam at the crystal point to win the match and with the heat of battle fighting a team mate of the enemy you can't tell as quick if the sam sneakly pulled his chiton out, and then you are done, sure a u problem if you cheat and have some automatic piggy as whm on LBing sam just to save the day as I heard the stories, but other than that it's very common and the cooldown itself is not really long and can be re-casted shortly, so yes I stick to it's not a u problem unless you insist on making it a u problem.

-As a mch, you really can't do much with a mnk trying to focus you and chase you down, you can even try it yourself, reachong the 7th's attack in mnk doesn't take even long as a mch you can problem knock them back which can make them just back to you, OR they can simply reach that point of the combo by doing it on your team mate and you are the main target and 10 sec is a LONG time for that to reset lol, so please.

-mch does need improvement and somehow a small defensive cooldown or whatever, besides who plays frontlines seriously, I was talking all of that based on ranked CC.

-Scattergun (10 yalm knockback)
-Bishop Autoturret (increase target damage taken by 10% and gives you a barrier for 6000 potency)
-Analysis Bioblaster ( 75%heavy)
-Air Anchor (Stun or Bind for 3 seconds)

Basically you have almost the entire All-cc-kit in one.

Are we playing the same job? diving MCH with remotely high BH its throwing yourself in to the sharks unless the MCH its a bot who stands idle while spamming Heat blast only.

None of the above CCs can really save you from a 60k+ health melee/tank that is just focusing you and annoying you unless you get to kill them first, more so having the chance of 3% that you MIGHT instantly kill them which will most likely not happen.

[Sawamura]

-In paper yes you can use your wild fantasy and be like hmm a 2 sec silence or a stun can stop a sam LB from "odin'ing" my health, right good luck with that 0.1 inhuman reaction because being LBed by a sam in higher ranks especially in crystal ranks is very common and there are even 2-3 players at time can be wiped trying to CC kill that sam at the crystal point to win the match and with the heat of battle fighting a team mate of the enemy you can't tell as quick if the sam sneakly pulled his chiton out, and then you are done, sure a u problem if you cheat and have some automatic piggy as whm on LBing sam just to save the day as I heard the stories, but other than that it's very common and the cooldown itself is not really long and can be re-casted shortly, so yes I stick to it's not a u problem unless you insist on making it a u problem.
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what kind of crystal rank be smart enough to group up together get owned by sam LB XD? 30s recast time with chiten are you really sure is short when people can die with less 10s with 2-3 people burst single guy?

[Issaella]

-Scattergun (10 yalm knockback)
-Bishop Autoturret (increase target damage taken by 10% and gives you a barrier for 6000 potency)
-Analysis Bioblaster ( 75%heavy)
-Air Anchor (Stun or Bind for 3 seconds)

- The knockback on Scatter is negligible and can be gap-closed instantly to reengage. Plus it has a hefty delay, I've frequently had it take >1sec before they actually get moved away from me in FL. Ive also frequently died due to the delay because they get in a cooldown before it punts them.
- The shield on Bishop is a joke, it's a GCD to throw it with a ground target circle. On top of that, there is a significant delay before the shield pulses. And even if it actually has time to pulse with it's piddly range, the 6000 potency shield absorbs like half of one hit from a melee DPS.
- As to you remaining points, MCH can't chose what action they are on. AA stun is not on-demand if they are on Drill or Saw. Similarly you can't bind/stun if you are on Bioblaster unless you are already in melee range to get off it and then wait the GCD to use AA. To even use the Heavy on Bioblaster you have to close to melee range, which is moronic to begin with due to the lack of defenses. What is the thought process there to design it that way? "Here's what MCH need in PvP, an ability that makes them move into into prime range for that melee DPS so that they can slow them down then turn around and run away while the melee DPS sprint/gap-close and stomp them anyway." That seems like a super-smart plan and not suicidal at all.

[Nikoto]

Honestly really glad I started this thread, it's funny: the fact any of you think balance should be tailored specifically to frontline is a bit hilarious. Anyway, if you're getting ganked by a single melee DPS in frontline you are literally 100% at fault - stay with your team? Your team of 24 people?

MCH has near the entire CC kit and a very good AOE area denial tool which you can really use it frontline (which you all seem to play), to close off using objectives with damage.

This entire thread has become buttblasted MCH players.

[Issaella]

It's possible to balance around both. They seem incapable of doing so outside of blanket nerfs/buffs to FL that turn it into even more of a mess. You know what would have improved melee surviability in FL without making then nigh unkillable to rDPS? Buff their defensive cooldowns either by increasing the DR percentage, increasing the duration, decreasing the cooldown, or some combination there of. Instead they just gave all melee a flat DR buff and completely screwed up the balance.

It's not an either/or, it's possible to balance around both, they have already shown they can make changes to FL without affecting CC. They are just utterly incompetent at it. I think the PvP balance team consists of what? 1 guy and 1 part-time intern? No wonder it's a miserable mess at present.

And to state for the record I couldn't give an s about CC balance. I hate MOBA gameplay and that's exactly what it is. I have played 1 match since the second week of release and that was only because I was out of Tail points and need 1 more for completion. They didn't need to ruin an entire PvP mode just to create a new one.

[Nikoto]

And to state for the record I couldn't give an s about CC balance.

Sounds like you only play FL and likely just for EXP - and while I agree they should introduce FL balances without big blankets, OHKO should be removed still, thanks.