What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Jagick]

This thread is no longer beating a dead horse nope. Thread has dug a hole half to China now.

As new players (or at least those new to this particular expansion) come in and experience it, some of us find it nice to have a place to express our personal grievances even if others have expressed them before us. It's cathartic, and at least it's mostly kept to this one thread made specifically for that purpose.

This just seems like choosing to be offended for the sake of it.

Why see it as "emotionally manipulative" over "having faith in the power of friendship reaching through time to bring together the people who can save the universe"?

Because that is god awful writing and something I'd expect out of a VERY bad and tropey shonen anime or Nomura and his Kingdom Hearts games (at least by the end of KH3.)

[Tama-Kanzashi]

Exactly my thoughts. I have no issue with Venat herself. The character they presented in Elpis is very charismatic and likeable in my opinion.

Not shaming you here, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But I would like to report about my impression of her as I play in DE.
And that is that at least to me, she was presented as a pretentious person who thinks herself more important than other people. Someone who likes to force her way into situations even if she wasn't invited. Someone who thinks she alone "gets it" and that everyone else doesn't so she needs to "help them walk their own path". And her "perfect at everything" writing did not help with that, it made it worse. Everyone needs her help, according to her.
She may like the idea of mankind, but only if they adhere to her idea of what is correct.

I said to someone once, if Emet from the past was not twisted into a Venat-enabler for the sake of pushing a certain narrative, I would like to see how he would react to her standing in front of him and directly telling him that "he needs her help because he cannot walk his own path yet ", I think it would be fairly amusing to see go down, with him being a kind but abrasive person.

[Nav_Fae]

I really enjoyed Endwalker, like a lot. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time and was consistently thinking myself how much I loved this game every time something happened.
It really wasn't until reading these forums til I started to deep think about things that I otherwise thought was fine. Some stuff I think are valid points that even I would like answers to. Other stuff I have read feels like it has kind of removed my own enjoyment from the story the more I see people expressing how disappointed they were.

[aveyond-dreams]

I'm just baffled at the fact that despite the major selling point of this game being its story, we have people who tell us to "not think too much about it."

Typically when you've just enjoyed a good story, when you think back to it the memory of it becomes better and more positive as you analyse and appreciate all its intricacies. Endwalker however proved to be the complete opposite. By merely applying common sense, the whole plot began to unravel. Thus here we find ourselves in a 626 page megathread.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

All in all with these expansion cancellations and one LL after another to unwrite themselves out of a hole, I will just insert my headcanon that what we got was the finale to Xenoblade Chronicles in Final Fantasy but it was done with the same professionalism as the former. And because I'm paranoid, Xenoblade spoilers in box.

Hydaelyn would be Zanza, Venat would be Klaus, all of this happened because it absolutely had to or Ethyris would have become a lifeless rock despite the Ancients' efforts because always a bigger fish, Zodiark would of course be Meyneth, and yours truly would surprisingly be Elidibus (Egil beind the Mechonis leader, so probably Emet too).

This already sounds better, and still makes me wonder why the story had to go the way it did. Unless the devs just don't care and want as much money for as little effort as possible, which many millennial developers seem to be fine with doing because they're allergic to work.

[Aneshda]

I agree with this much, and your final question. But it makes me go in the opposite direction to the "Venat should have been a villain" argument: rather, because everything surrounding it seems to be okay with her actions, it seems that the intention for the sake of the wider plot was to have her actions be acceptable – so how did they go so wrong in deciding what her actions were?

There was no need to make her consciously guilty of a deliberate sundering. It could have been an accident, an unintended consequence of some other action, or at very least a mistaken judgement by "Hydaelyn", an amalgamated primal will who is distinct from Venat as an individual.

They could have written that one scene to portray any number of scenarios, and the rest of the narrative really doesn't change around it, so I am more inclined to point to that scene and not everything else as the anomaly – especially when it doesn't add up with any of the information established in Shadowbringers about how the Sundering happened.

What happened in production? Was there a late rewrite? Did they somehow lose sight of everything they had already written in the rest of the story? It certainly feels like it.

I think Yoshi lost his mind and thought he could write a super story and messed it all up

[Liam_Harper]

I really enjoyed Endwalker, like a lot. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time and was consistently thinking myself how much I loved this game every time something happened.
It really wasn't until reading these forums til I started to deep think about things that I otherwise thought was fine. Some stuff I think are valid points that even I would like answers to. Other stuff I have read feels like it has kind of removed my own enjoyment from the story the more I see people expressing how disappointed they were.

I wouldn't let it kill your enjoyment. I look at it this way. I loved the MSQ. It was entertaining, had many amazing moments, epic feelings, a roller coaster of emotions and was well worth the money paid. I'm a happy customer in that regard. I'd pay it again without hesitation next expansion.

It's the story as a whole and the overall structure that falls apart. Many of the posts here explain that really well, but even for someone who isn't a lore expert it's plain they just wanted to wash their hands of the whole Ascian and Garlean plot and rushed about 3 expansions worth of story into one. Naturally that's going to have consequences for the quality.

It's possible to have an an objectively amazing MSQ experience and some really good subplots and side stories (and nothing wrong with enjoying that), but still have a very poor overall story structure.

[Vyrerus]

Not shaming you here, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But I would like to report about my impression of her as I play in DE.
And that is that at least to me, she was presented as a pretentious person who thinks herself more important than other people. Someone who likes to force her way into situations even if she wasn't invited. Someone who thinks she alone "gets it" and that everyone else doesn't so she needs to "help them walk their own path". And her "perfect at everything" writing did not help with that, it made it worse. Everyone needs her help, according to her.
She may like the idea of mankind, but only if they adhere to her idea of what is correct.

I said to someone once, if Emet from the past was not twisted into a Venat-enabler for the sake of pushing a certain narrative, I would like to see how he would react to her standing in front of him and directly telling him that "he needs her help because he cannot walk his own path yet ", I think it would be fairly amusing to see go down, with him being a kind but abrasive person.

If you pay attention in English, she is the same way. The point she's making is mostly obfuscated by flowery language though, and with how thirsty XIV players are, it's not hard for me to think that a lot of folks were only skim reading her dialogue, while gushing over her gorgeous eyeballs.

VENAT:
"As you know, I was once a scholar. And among other things, I sought to understand the workings of the world.

What exactly is aether? How formed the laws of nature? Whence sprung mankind?

Riddles and mysteries beyond counting. Over the years I have managed to find answers to some few of them... Yet rather than attain a sense of mastery, the more I understood, the more I came to hold the world and its miracles in awe.
We too are miracles, each and every one of us. Born of the warm breath of life that traverses the heavens, swirling through eternity.

When I fully grasped the improbability of our existence, nothing felt impossible any more. If it could be imagined, it could be done.

A passion swelled within me. An epiphany dispelling all preconceptions of what was natural and true. And a presence without. Immense yet intimate-- fate, perhaps-- holding us in its tender embrace...

As reassuring as it was intimidating. How keenly aware I become of creation's fragility, built as it is upon precarious happenstance.

I was overcome with an irrepressible urge to know the world more intimately. To hear its voice, feel its breath... I ventured forth on a journey that very day. So very long ago now.

Freed from presumption and prejudice, I saw the world through a newborn's eyes. Everything fresh and new and so, so beautiful. Lands that stretched on forever. Skies one could drown in. The heartbeat of nature, silent yet strong.

And amidst it all a people. Beacons of light and life. Laughter that warmed my heart like naught else before. They are my meaning and my purpose. My love.

And so long as they need help, I cannot return to the star. Perhaps my future self is still waiting for it. The moment she can let go and walk unto the end... Safe in the knowledge that man will find his own way."

In simpler speak, without all of the allusion to the world and people's beauty, she basically just said to us that she tried to understand and know existence. And that she succeeded.

In her success she felt something godlike, the thing she refers to as fate.

Without knowing or seemingly caring whether or not anyone else had experienced this same feeling, she came to the conclusion that mankind would always need her until they proved otherwise. She was beyond and above their understanding. Basically, she became a silent judge of others, at all times.

She says this is why she can't return, while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge that by staying, she invites others to lean on her because she is an option. It makes her judgment's verdict self fulfilling.

[Jagick]

I really enjoyed Endwalker, like a lot. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time and was consistently thinking myself how much I loved this game every time something happened.
It really wasn't until reading these forums til I started to deep think about things that I otherwise thought was fine. Some stuff I think are valid points that even I would like answers to. Other stuff I have read feels like it has kind of removed my own enjoyment from the story the more I see people expressing how disappointed they were.

I felt the same, or at least tried to convince myself of the same for the most part. Saw this thread title months back and convinced myself everyone here were just whiners and probably nitpickers. At that point I had never even opened this thread yet. It wasn't until I started progressing through the story that I became more aware that something just wasn't right. It began with me feeling like I was playing ARR again (imo the most boring story) during Sharlayan and Thavnair. Which lead to me asking some folks when it gets better or picks up. The answer I always received was Garlemald and maybe going to the moon / seeing Zodiark. Garlemald was what convinced me something was very, very wrong and upon reaching the moon and """""""Zodiark""""""" it sealed the deal. From there it hasn't been any better either.

It's like multiple re-watches of a marvel movie. Once you get over all the excitement and fan service you can see the movie with a more critical eyes and judge it accordingly. The bag of chips effect is over and you no longer just need more more more. You become aware of the problems and inconsistencies. Then you bring up your grievances and out of the wood work come those who want you to shut up, and are willing to pull out every ad hominen attack and strawman argument to make that happen, which only further makes up your mind.

Basically, you can't un-ring a bell.

This very same phenomenon has prevent me from replaying through the Mass Effect series for years. Just knowing the way ME3 was handled (not even just the ending but the entire game was basically a downgrade from ME1 and ME2) retroactively killed my ability to enjoy the series, because I knew what was coming.

[Reap00]

I really enjoyed Endwalker, like a lot. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time and was consistently thinking myself how much I loved this game every time something happened.
It really wasn't until reading these forums til I started to deep think about things that I otherwise thought was fine. Some stuff I think are valid points that even I would like answers to. Other stuff I have read feels like it has kind of removed my own enjoyment from the story the more I see people expressing how disappointed they were.

This is a very small forum. I guarantee you the amount of players that loved the Endwalker story vastly surpasses the number here that had issues with it.