What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Dikatis]

It'd be like if Aliens showed up on Earth, and one country's leader said, "Ah yeah, it's cool if y'all just settle anywhere you want, homies." Then the homies claim a continent or two, and start clearing out people that are in their way.

This is incorrect. The dragons of Meracydia were explicitly guardians of the continent who worked alongside mankind to repel Allagan conquest.

The native peoples of the southern continent banded together under the leadership of the dragons who also claimed dominion in Meracydia. While without equal on the Three Great Continents, the Imperial Army’s chimerical warbeasts were no match for the dragons’ fiery breath, and countless casualties were suffered. This, however, only served to further motivate the scientists of Allag in their ungodly pursuit of might through biological manipulation, and it was not long before they had created abominations which exceeded the might of the Meracydian Horde. In a decisive and bloody battle, the Allagans slew the dawn wyrm, Bahamut, paving the way for immediate occupation… or so they believed.

Together with my brood-brother Bahamut, I journeyed south to Meracydia. And together, we brought forth innumerable children into the world. We abided in peace, and all was well...until the men of Allag came, some five thousand years since. They slaughtered my children in droves, and took from me my beloved Bahamut.

The dragons didn't "clear out" anyone and lived in peace with the people of Meracydia just as the Ishgardians did with the Dravanian horde prior to Thordan's betrayal.

Please don't villainize the dragons for no reason.

[Rosenstrauch]

This is incorrect. The dragons of Meracydia were explicitly guardians of the continent who worked alongside mankind to repel Allagan conquest.

The dragons didn't "clear out" anyone and lived in peace with the people of Meracydia just as the Ishgardians did with the Dravanian horde prior to Thordan's betrayal.

Please don't villainize the dragons for no reason.

Yeah, that really was the problem with trying to present this as a morally gray conflict. This ain't no Three Houses or Binding Blade—the worst thing Midgardsormr's Brood did was be alive. And they could've done so much more to make it that, but they didn't. At least when they touched upon the start of the Dravanian/Ishgard thousand year war, they had the good sense to suggest Thordan I felt threatened by Nidhogg's preening about being the world's protector. Not that that justified murdering Ratatoskr and kicking off that war, but it's a far better reason than "we needed a round of war crimes to rouse our society of decadent wastrels and Meracydia was one of the few places we hadn't already crushed beneath our heel".

I can see why folks would want to headcanon their way into the Meracydia/Allag conflict being more nuanced than it is. But it really isn't. Allag was, and continues to be, an object lesson on the worst excesses of human depravity. And it's just... really damn weird to see the writers trying to angle that depravity as a positive.

Which is why I'm happy they gave me the option to say, more or less, "No, Allag crossed a line and then kept going". And I suppose for that choice to have weight, the opposite choice must also exist. Otherwise it'd just be forcing a view point on the player.

But man. It's like listening to someone try to justify slavery by citing the reduction in labor costs.

EDIT: To clarify the above line, I'm referring to Noah bigging up her collaborators and protégés during the Eureka Orthos questline.

[Vyrerus]

This is incorrect.

In so far as we know right now. You really think that the dragons just showed up in Meracydia, and were 100% accepted? The tribes banded together under them after an outside threat showed up at their doorstep. Not before.

What did those innumerable children eat? Who did they displace? You're not gonna get answers to that.

We are told the, "first men" didn't show up on the continent, at least within the Sundered's current record of history, until the 2nd Astral Era (and because of Elpis and the Ancients we know this record of history isn't without flaw/gaps). But before that, there was Sephirot's Treant race, as well as Zurvan's Reptile Centaur race. Zurvan's race can call down meteors.

You also seem to forget that St. Shiva had to work a peace before the Dravanians lived in any peace at all with man.

I'm not trying to say the dragons are evil. I'm just being realistic. In order for beings of their magnitude to live, they have to have space, hunting grounds, and uncorrupted aether. What bargains and accords were struck with Zurvan's race, if any? Given that they're reptilian, perhaps the dragons ensnared them in mind control, as they do scalekin in Eorzea. How about with Sephirot's treants?

Also, again, look at the entry you quoted's wording. "...dragons who also claimed dominion in Meracydia." That means to claim rightful rule or authority over a land. Doesn't sound peaceful to me. And even if it was, how much of that peace was bought with fear? Dragons, afterall, are unsundered beings from an unsundered star that are also physically imposing even in their smallest forms.

Have you no memory of Aiatar from Brayflox Longstop? It decided it wanted to roost there, and then took control of the scalekin in the area, and ousted/killed the goblins. Not all dragons are good, and they are more than willing to take what they want.

[Deo14]

Recently I was checking some SAM logs and realized something disturbing - about 20-23% of all SAM's actions are Shinten. "Kaiten was bad design" my ass, spending 1/5th of your time mashing single button is so much worse. Just for comparison, WAR does Fell Cleave for ~21% of all actions and Inner Chaos for ~7%, but at least both of those are actually satisfying to use, and are not just boring, bland oGCDs.

[Theodric]

Allag is in a strange place in general since it used to be tied to Garlemald quite significantly and the Garleans, realistically, should be pretty eager to acquire and reverse engineer as much Allagan technology as possible given the current state that their homeland is in. Yet these days anything related to Allag revolves almost exclusively around G'raha.

As for the matter of grey morality, I'd say the biggest issue with that is the game's habit of having characters or factions commit atrocities only to later reveal that they had a sympathetic reason to begin with. What they should be doing is exploring the nuance from the very start - especially with how much this game encourages a self inserts. There's merit to the 'show, don't tell' aspect. I'm generally not a fan of nations being reduced to 'mostly good' or 'mostly evil' in the first place, though.

[thevanguard]

There's merit to the 'show, don't tell' aspect.

Im afraid that won't be possible because they need to cater to 40 IQ folks who need Y'shtola to handhold them to explain what a shard is for the 10000th time

Yoshi P mentioned something about players getting confused about lore once, since then they insert explanation sequences for every single little trivial detail in case players just don't get it. And we also got Active Time Lore, which is probably a good way to cater to people who absolutely can't follow the story at all.

The writing in FF14 is full of disrespect for the player's intellect. Maybe if they put ATL into FF14 too they can start trying to cut back on the "telling" portion of the writing.

[Kyrj]

Im afraid that won't be possible because they need to cater to 40 IQ folks who need Y'shtola to handhold them to explain what a shard is for the 10000th time

Yoshi P mentioned something about players getting confused about lore once, since then they insert explanation sequences for every single little trivial detail in case players just don't get it. And we also got Active Time Lore, which is probably a good way to cater to people who absolutely can't follow the story at all.

The writing in FF14 is full of disrespect for the player's intellect. Maybe if they put ATL into FF14 too they can start trying to cut back on the "telling" portion of the writing.

I mean it's Square, the people who thought Westerners were too stupid to understand their masterpiece of a story that is Final Fantasy and gave us Mystic Quest. I like FF and Square has its moments but they're not nearly as deep, clever, and subtle as they think they are with their stories.

[Theodric]

The common trend is that Venat actively offered aid to everyone but the Ancients. Granted, that aid was minimal and indirect but the trend is that she never stood in the way of the Sundered or the dragons yet sabotaged her own people at every turn. Nothing they did was ever good enough, yet also somehow necessary for her plans. She'd be an intriguing villain/antagonist if she were treated honestly by the narrative. Very much the sort of tragic misguided figure along the lines of Yunalesca from FFX.

[BRVV]

The Sundering was an inside job

[Atelier-Bagur]

The Sundering was an inside job

An Italian or a Nut Job?