Give us more Thief Maps!

[Gersin]

I hope that this issue gets some notice. I don't mind map grind, but map achievements associated with Stormblood compared to any other expansion seem to take exponentially longer. It would be nice to see Thiefs maps drop from post SB map dungeons, but it would especially help to see them become tradable.

[Asuka-Hykiri]

I would love to have more opportunities to obtain thief maps. Adding them as possible loot in post 70 maps would be awesome. It would also be great to provide these as a reward for the mogtome events or receiving these for other types of currency.

Be nice to get drops that are more relevant too since the 4.0 minions are now worthless

I hope that this issue gets some notice. I don't mind map grind, but map achievements associated with Stormblood compared to any other expansion seem to take exponentially longer. It would be nice to see Thiefs maps drop from post SB map dungeons, but it would especially help to see them become tradable.

We did another 60 maps (8 thief maps I think we ended up with in the end) Got kicked out on the 1st door on at least 5 of them :/

[Adnama]

It does seem like time to revisit this old part of the game, because it's clear people still do want the achievements. Back when the idea of thief maps was conceived, I don't think SE math wizards considered with empathy how long the achievements for thief map clears would take, and now 5 years after the maps were introduced there are perilously few people who have gotten them because of the brutal RNG. So, it's time tested and it looks like there should be a change.

Nothing in the game should take half a decade to complete, so making the maps more accessible would be the most direct way to help with this. Adding to the suggestions on how to do that, thief maps buyable with allied or centurio seals could be a thing, or do some lore tie-in by making them available in Thavnair somehow.

[DrWho2010]

or how bout just rare stuff stays rare. that's why it's called rare no?

but who knows you may sometime get your wish because the devs constantly provide other methods to get rare things easier over the years.

[Bill_Murray]

or how bout just rare stuff stays rare. that's why it's called rare no?

but who knows you may sometime get your wish because the devs constantly provide other methods to get rare things easier over the years.

I think you are missing the point.

Thief maps are already rare and hard to get. Once you get them, the clear rate is less than 1% (strictly based on RNG, not player skill). This means that it will require more than 2,000 thief maps to get the final achievement, requiring more than 2,000 hours. This is more time-intensive than all four ultimates combined--something the devs likely did not intend for maps (which are typically casual content).

All we are asking is for the devs to offer more ways to earn the maps, not to nerf the maps themselves.

Yoshi P himself said that playing the game should not lead to a lack-of-fun experience. Trust me--grinding thief maps is not fun at all.

[TinDragon]

or how bout just rare stuff stays rare. that's why it's called rare no?

but who knows you may sometime get your wish because the devs constantly provide other methods to get rare things easier over the years.

I'm not sure you quite understand how rare this achievement actually is though. I can understand why, but let me see if I can impress on you how "rare" that is.

At least two people in this thread pop 240 of their own Gazelleskin maps a month. That's in addition to any maps that everyone else in the group brings as well. Over 500 Gazelleskin maps on the low end in a month, resulting in precisely zero Hidden Canals clears in the month of June. And of course those thief maps aren't tradeable, so it's RNG on top of RNG, with a third layer of RNG if you're in a group that will be greedy with the maps instead of using them immediately.

That's not a rare achievement because it's difficult, or requires some special skill, or because it's something people don't want to do or are choosing not to do it. It's rare because it's purely a dice roll, and it's basically making you roll one specific number on a thousand sided dice. Twenty times.

[Eve_Xiaolong]

or how bout just rare stuff stays rare. that's why it's called rare no?

but who knows you may sometime get your wish because the devs constantly provide other methods to get rare things easier over the years.

I do agree that something rare should be somewhat of a challenge or harder to get but I think there is a line that it seems that specifically the thief maps have crossed.

Just to compare looking at the fishing achievements, most of them are also RNG on top of RNG with a bit of RNG on the side. The part that in most cases makes fishing something you can deal with is that you get to try it again and again in the next hour, or day in some cases.

One of the harder fishes to catch outside of the blues in ocean fishing is Ealad Skaan, due mostly to its respawn timer that is in days, and the 90 second window. This is another somewhat bad case of the RNG on RNG that's a pain to deal with. It's not skill, it's just hitting your head against the wall until it works out.

But catching this fish still seems like something that can be done, I mean I just did it the other day. Each window you see someone in shout chat getting it and you have ways to up your chances with surface slap and chum.

With the thief maps, you don’t have that ‘Oh if I keep trying I’ll get it’ feeling with all the RNG that's built into it, really makes you feel defeated, and like you're just not having fun. You also don’t have a way to help once you get one, its RNGing your way through 7 floors each with 3 doors. Unlike fishing you're really rolling the dice without a way to help your side of the odds.

I don’t think anyone is asking for the maps to be reworked to give a higher RNG or to pull the number of doors down to the normal 2. I think everyone just wants a better, more reliable way to be able to get the map, either via MB, Allied or Centurio seals, or just drops from current maps.

[Asuka-Hykiri]

or how bout just rare stuff stays rare. that's why it's called rare no?

but who knows you may sometime get your wish because the devs constantly provide other methods to get rare things easier over the years.

There is keeping things rare, and there is keeping things things rarer than unicorn poop. 60 maps gets us about 10 thief maps (on a good day) 200 thief maps got us 2 clears in the last 2 months or so (Both of those were within a week of each other, its now been coming up to 6 weeks since we got a clear)

Some map days we're grinding 70 maps for 12 hours

[Lethargium]

It would also be great to provide these as a reward for the mogtome events or receiving these for other types of currency.

Not a bad idea. Considering how the items from these maps have plummeted so much in price without the ease of access to such maps, it'd hardly be detrimental to that small ~sector~ of the economy if they were more accessible now. That said, I think as a recurring option for moogle tomestone events is the most likely outcome we'll see — and I'm all for it. I need something to burn the tomes on that isn't platinum MGP cards, anyway.

[MillhioreF]

Yes, please! While I feel the Hidden Canals were fine during Stormblood due to a steady supply of maps entering the economy from normal map runners, and while I feel the chance of getting to the end once actually inside is befitting of the rarity of the achievement, thief maps themselves have become far too obnoxious to obtain nowadays since gazelleskin maps are so rarely run by players.

Ideally I'd like to see either:

• Thief maps dropped from all map dungeons 70 and above
• Thief maps tradable and purchasable on the market board
• Thief maps as a reward from moogle tomestones (perhaps instead of Ostensibly Special Timeworn Maps)

Any single one of these would be enough to ease the burden and make it a much more palatable achievement to go for, while still maintaining most of the sense of rarity and accomplishment for the couple thousand maps required to complete the Hidden Canals 20 times.