When do we have normal balance in CC?

[Holmesy]

CC is fine. You don't need melee at all to win. You don't even need DPS. If you lose, it's because you were outplayed by your opponents.

I envy you if you still think so. You probably didn't have games where you simply can't oppose anything to the other team. Because you just don't have enough damage/hp/control to fight back (especially control).

[Gserpent]

I envy you if you still think so. You probably didn't have games where you simply can't oppose anything to the other team. Because you just don't have enough damage/hp/control to fight back (especially control).

Dude, I've had games where we were 4 healers plus a tank, and I've had games where I was the healer with 4 tanks. I won both types of games and it wasn't even close. I've also had games where we had a "normal" 1/1/3 or 2/1/2 composition against 5 DPS and we got absolutely obliterated.

Roles don't matter. Skill does. Some compositions are going to need certain skills or playstyles out of your team, and it's entirely likely that your team will not be able to deliver on that, especially in low skill games. But that doesn't mean we need role queuing, it just means people need to improve their play and understand the game better.

[Holmesy]

Dude, I've had games where we were 4 healers plus a tank, and I've had games where I was the healer with 4 tanks. I won both types of games and it wasn't even close. I've also had games where we had a "normal" 1/1/3 or 2/1/2 composition against 5 DPS and we got absolutely obliterated.

Roles don't matter. Skill does. Some compositions are going to need certain skills or playstyles out of your team, and it's entirely likely that your team will not be able to deliver on that, especially in low skill games. But that doesn't mean we need role queuing, it just means people need to improve their play and understand the game better.

What "skill" do you need on bard (for example) if you don't have any dmg vs melee? You do not have hp, and you are only dps here? Team skill? Good luck then, team skill will be more revealing with normal team balance.

[Gserpent]

What "skill" do you need on bard (for example) if you don't have any dmg vs melee? You do not have hp, and you are only dps here? Team skill? Good luck then, team skill will be more revealing with normal team balance.

Bard has plenty of damage vs melee.

[Menriq]

Bard has plenty of damage vs melee.

BRD used to be able to hold their own with mDPS, but with the 6.18 changes, mDPS is able to survive and keep close to the BRD, thus nullifying the damage BRD does. AFAIK, it's the only job that has a requirement to stay at ranged to be do max damage on their main DPS skill.

[Gserpent]

BRD used to be able to hold their own with mDPS, but with the 6.18 changes, mDPS is able to survive and keep close to the BRD, thus nullifying the damage BRD does. AFAIK, it's the only job that has a requirement to stay at ranged to be do max damage on their main DPS skill.

BRD would still lose handily to every melee class even if they didn't have damage fall-off because BRD's personal DPS is pretty low. They have okay burst but their sustained isn't great, and they don't have any personal defense skill beyond Repelling Shot and Paean. Compare this to melee generally doing more DPS (and many classes also having more burst DPS) and having strong defensive tools and it's not really a fair contest.

BRD is a buff-centric class, which means their personal output is lower than normal. It's the same story for SCH.

[Risvertasashi]

Dude, I've had games where we were 4 healers plus a tank, and I've had games where I was the healer with 4 tanks. I won both types of games and it wasn't even close. I've also had games where we had a "normal" 1/1/3 or 2/1/2 composition against 5 DPS and we got absolutely obliterated.

Roles don't matter. Skill does. Some compositions are going to need certain skills or playstyles out of your team, and it's entirely likely that your team will not be able to deliver on that, especially in low skill games. But that doesn't mean we need role queuing, it just means people need to improve their play and understand the game better.

Yeah. It seems it's going to take people a long time to shed the mindset of "We need to have a traditional composition/same roles as the other team/etc"

What "skill" do you need on bard (for example) if you don't have any dmg vs melee? You do not have hp, and you are only dps here? Team skill? Good luck then, team skill will be more revealing with normal team balance.

I mean... would perfectly-mirrored teams be the most balanced possible? Sure. But we had that (or something very close anyways).

There's a reason we don't have it anymore.

Perhaps think carefully why the devs chose to move away from that model, and why it's made pvp so much more popular...

[Holmesy]

Perhaps think carefully why the devs chose to move away from that model, and why it's made pvp so much more popular...

Another model, Another goal, simplier jobs, bigger problems.
Seems like this so far.

I mean I can't rly understand you, coz if skill is equal then classes win (not even jobs), right?

[Risvertasashi]

Another model, Another goal, simplier jobs, bigger problems.
Seems like this so far.

I mean I can't rly understand you, coz if skill is equal then classes win (not even jobs), right?

So.

We go back to old feast model, then? Queues die because no one wants to play healers? And maybe you take out healers and then what, queues die because no tanks?

So you take out healers and tanks and you have all DPS matches and... ah, wait, that sounds an awful lot like what we have now.

[Holmesy]

So.

We go back to old feast model, then? Queues die because no one wants to play healers? And maybe you take out healers and then what, queues die because no tanks?

So you take out healers and tanks and you have all DPS matches and... ah, wait, that sounds an awful lot like what we have now.

I mean that 5 dd vs 5 dd is okey match, just balance melee to melee, etc. and yeah, it's better.